XL H1 tape stock ?

Steve Rosen · March 13th, 2006, 05:37 PM

As I said in another post close by, I've shot 28 tapes, mostly Sony DVM63, with eight Sony DigitalMasters - I have not had a single drop-out, and no problems.

I've also shot about 5 Sony PDVM-40Ns (in 16x9 SD for a project started with the XL2). I think as long as you stick with one manufaturer's high-end tapes you'll be okay - just stay away from the cheap tapes and beware of deals - bad place to try to save money... Steve Rosen

Didi Schoeman · August 28th, 2006, 09:09 AM

Could someone please advice me which tape stock to buy for the XL-H1, I used Sony's Mini DV premium cassettes for my XL1s, but don't know weather they will be fine to use with my new XL-H1.

Can I use the normal Sony mini Dv tapes or do I have to buy a special HD tape?

Thanks for the advice.

Didi

John Richard · August 28th, 2006, 10:33 AM

We have done 3 separate shoots with Sony standard Mini-DV tape and have experienced no trouble.

I've read (never confirmed thru research) that switching tape brands is not good as their could be incompatability between the lubricants used. But I do not know if this is a fact or unsubstantiated wive's tale.

Charles Perkins · August 28th, 2006, 10:33 AM

shouldn't this be the kind of research you do before you by the(quite expensive) camera?

either way, your sony mini-DV tapes will do fine. you do not need anyh special hdv tapes, they have just been checked to a higher standard for dropouts.

Didi Schoeman · August 28th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Thanks for the info, I thought the Sony premium Mini-DV tapes would be fine but my camera reseller wanted me to buy special Sony HD Mini DV-tapes that cost 3 times as much. Somehow I figured it to be a sales gimmick, but wasn't sure, thought I'd check over here first!!!

Thanks for the advice.

Didi Schoeman

Didi Schoeman · August 28th, 2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Richard

We have done 3 separate shoots with Sony standard Mini-DV tape and have experienced no trouble.

I've read (never confirmed thru research) that switching tape brands is not good as their could be incompatability between the lubricants used. But I do not know if this is a fact or unsubstantiated wive's tale.

John, I can confirm what you've heard. I made the mistake of switching tape stock in my XL1s when I first got it... not a good idea, my footage had incredible amounts of drop out, I had to send the camera to Canon for repairs and they put it down to me using different tape stock. SInce then I stuck to the Sony brand and have never had any problems with dropout... guess it's true!!!

Ken Diewert · August 28th, 2006, 11:50 AM

Didi,

My dealer told me that ' If you shoot Sony, stay with sony' - 'carry a cleaning tape, but use it VERY sparingly (only if needed), instead opt for regular real head cleaning in a reputable shop (not nescessarily the factory)'.

I think that if you you're on the Serengeti Plains in the magic hour and a bull elephant rears back and roars and you had it beautifully composed with perfect presets, you'd want to know that the tape stock held up.

I'd pay 3 times the cost of cheap tape for max value footage. I guess it depends if you're comparing the cost of HD tapes to cheap mini DV or to film stock. Back in the early 90's, I wanted to buy a 16mm film cam. Then I found out it would cost me something crazy like $300 for 10 minutes of processed film stock. HD tapes still look pretty cheap compared to that.

Now, if you were just shooting cousin Ernie's wedding...

Just my 2 cents...

Ken

Harry Bromley-Davenport · August 28th, 2006, 12:00 PM

Didi,

Please spend the extra money and buy the Sony Digital Master tapes. They are about $16 each, but have a better shell and superior lubrication and coating. This is not a myth or a con trick.

Head cleaning tapes are effectively like fine sandpaper and remove a very thin layer of the head. To say "use sparingly" would be an understatement. "Use in emergency when you find dropouts and you are in the middle of a swamp" would be more like it.

I got a good price and good service from Tapestockonline.com.

Best,

Harry.

Didi Schoeman · August 28th, 2006, 12:59 PM

Hi Harry

Thanks for the info, now that you put it that way I'm going to rather fork out the extra cash on the Digital Master Tapes.

Thanks again.

Didi

Mark Bournes · August 28th, 2006, 12:59 PM

If you're shooting SD you can use the regular mini dv tapes. If you're shooting HD use the sony HD tapes.

Dan Keaton · August 28th, 2006, 01:51 PM

Just remember, a dropout in SD is just a minor annoynance as it may only affect one frame.

A dropout in HDV means that you lose many frames. I do not remember how many but it seems like you lose about 1/2 second.

I have been pleased with the Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ which are about $5.00 each (in quantity) now.

Dan Keaton · August 28th, 2006, 01:56 PM

From what I have read, when recording or playing a MiniDV (or HDV) type tape, a coating (similiar to varnish) coats the heads.

The tape cleaning, ideally, just removes this unwanted coating on your heads.

In the real world, no one knows exactly when to stop the tape cleaning process. My best advice is the following the tape cleaning instructions precisely! If there is no coating on the heads, then the cleaning process does wear down the heads.

Canon's manual is not very precise as to how often one should clean the heads.

Luke Sabala · August 28th, 2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Richard

We have done 3 separate shoots with Sony standard Mini-DV tape and have experienced no trouble.

I've read (never confirmed thru research) that switching tape brands is not good as their could be incompatability between the lubricants used. But I do not know if this is a fact or unsubstantiated wive's tale.

John you're actually right on that theory. Switching the brand of tape does change lubricants and could potentially cause trouble with your heads!

Didi Schoeman · August 28th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

Didi,

My dealer told me that ' If you shoot Sony, stay with sony' - 'carry a cleaning tape, but use it VERY sparingly (only if needed), instead opt for regular real head cleaning in a reputable shop (not nescessarily the factory)'.

I think that if you you're on the Serengeti Plains in the magic hour and a bull elephant rears back and roars and you had it beautifully composed with perfect presets, you'd want to know that the tape stock held up.

I'd pay 3 times the cost of cheap tape for max value footage. I guess it depends if you're comparing the cost of HD tapes to cheap mini DV or to film stock. Back in the early 90's, I wanted to buy a 16mm film cam. Then I found out it would cost me something crazy like $300 for 10 minutes of processed film stock. HD tapes still look pretty cheap compared to that.

Now, if you were just shooting cousin Ernie's wedding...

Just my 2 cents...

Ken

You're 100% correct Ken, I've lost stunning footage due to dropout in the past and it's a terrible feeling, like going over a speed-trap!!! Only this one hurts more in the end!!!

Don DesJardin · August 28th, 2006, 02:49 PM

I can't comfirm this, but I was told by a major camera store in Los Angeles that Sony MiniDV Premium was designed for use in single chip cameras, and Sony MiniDV Excellence should be used with 3 chip cameras to take advantage of the advanced technology. In any case, if you decide not to get HD tape, at least switch to Excellence. I don't own a XL H1, but I use one on paid shoots, and all the tape used is Sony PHDVM63DM Digital Master. Tape is the cheapest part of your trip, and some of the shots you might get, will never happen again, even if you could afford to go back. Just my thoughts......

August 28th, 2006, 09:09 AM	#32
Didi Schoeman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tzaneen South Africa Posts: 76	Tape Stock Could someone please advice me which tape stock to buy for the XL-H1, I used Sony's Mini DV premium cassettes for my XL1s, but don't know weather they will be fine to use with my new XL-H1. Can I use the normal Sony mini Dv tapes or do I have to buy a special HD tape? Thanks for the advice. Didi __________________ Didi Schoeman ProAfrica Television & Video Productions

August 28th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#35
Didi Schoeman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tzaneen South Africa Posts: 76	Thanks for the info, I thought the Sony premium Mini-DV tapes would be fine but my camera reseller wanted me to buy special Sony HD Mini DV-tapes that cost 3 times as much. Somehow I figured it to be a sales gimmick, but wasn't sure, thought I'd check over here first!!! Thanks for the advice. Didi Schoeman __________________ Didi Schoeman ProAfrica Television & Video Productions

August 28th, 2006, 11:50 AM	#37
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Didi, My dealer told me that ' If you shoot Sony, stay with sony' - 'carry a cleaning tape, but use it VERY sparingly (only if needed), instead opt for regular real head cleaning in a reputable shop (not nescessarily the factory)'. I think that if you you're on the Serengeti Plains in the magic hour and a bull elephant rears back and roars and you had it beautifully composed with perfect presets, you'd want to know that the tape stock held up. I'd pay 3 times the cost of cheap tape for max value footage. I guess it depends if you're comparing the cost of HD tapes to cheap mini DV or to film stock. Back in the early 90's, I wanted to buy a 16mm film cam. Then I found out it would cost me something crazy like $300 for 10 minutes of processed film stock. HD tapes still look pretty cheap compared to that. Now, if you were just shooting cousin Ernie's wedding... Just my 2 cents... Ken __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

August 28th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#39
Didi Schoeman Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Tzaneen South Africa Posts: 76	Hi Harry Thanks for the info, now that you put it that way I'm going to rather fork out the extra cash on the Digital Master Tapes. Thanks again. Didi __________________ Didi Schoeman ProAfrica Television & Video Productions

August 28th, 2006, 12:59 PM	#40
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	If you're shooting SD you can use the regular mini dv tapes. If you're shooting HD use the sony HD tapes. __________________ Mark www.sharkvp.com

March 13th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#31
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	As I said in another post close by, I've shot 28 tapes, mostly Sony DVM63, with eight Sony DigitalMasters - I have not had a single drop-out, and no problems. I've also shot about 5 Sony PDVM-40Ns (in 16x9 SD for a project started with the XL2). I think as long as you stick with one manufaturer's high-end tapes you'll be okay - just stay away from the cheap tapes and beware of deals - bad place to try to save money... Steve Rosen

August 28th, 2006, 10:33 AM	#33
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	We have done 3 separate shoots with Sony standard Mini-DV tape and have experienced no trouble. I've read (never confirmed thru research) that switching tape brands is not good as their could be incompatability between the lubricants used. But I do not know if this is a fact or unsubstantiated wive's tale.

August 28th, 2006, 10:33 AM	#34
Charles Perkins Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: paris, fr Posts: 102	shouldn't this be the kind of research you do before you by the(quite expensive) camera? either way, your sony mini-DV tapes will do fine. you do not need anyh special hdv tapes, they have just been checked to a higher standard for dropouts.

August 28th, 2006, 12:00 PM	#38
Harry Bromley-Davenport Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: LA CA Posts: 317	Didi, Please spend the extra money and buy the Sony Digital Master tapes. They are about $16 each, but have a better shell and superior lubrication and coating. This is not a myth or a con trick. Head cleaning tapes are effectively like fine sandpaper and remove a very thin layer of the head. To say "use sparingly" would be an understatement. "Use in emergency when you find dropouts and you are in the middle of a swamp" would be more like it. I got a good price and good service from Tapestockonline.com. Best, Harry.

August 28th, 2006, 01:51 PM	#41
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Just remember, a dropout in SD is just a minor annoynance as it may only affect one frame. A dropout in HDV means that you lose many frames. I do not remember how many but it seems like you lose about 1/2 second. I have been pleased with the Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ which are about $5.00 each (in quantity) now. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

August 28th, 2006, 01:56 PM	#42
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	From what I have read, when recording or playing a MiniDV (or HDV) type tape, a coating (similiar to varnish) coats the heads. The tape cleaning, ideally, just removes this unwanted coating on your heads. In the real world, no one knows exactly when to stop the tape cleaning process. My best advice is the following the tape cleaning instructions precisely! If there is no coating on the heads, then the cleaning process does wear down the heads. Canon's manual is not very precise as to how often one should clean the heads. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

August 28th, 2006, 02:49 PM	#45
Don DesJardin Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 255	I can't comfirm this, but I was told by a major camera store in Los Angeles that Sony MiniDV Premium was designed for use in single chip cameras, and Sony MiniDV Excellence should be used with 3 chip cameras to take advantage of the advanced technology. In any case, if you decide not to get HD tape, at least switch to Excellence. I don't own a XL H1, but I use one on paid shoots, and all the tape used is Sony PHDVM63DM Digital Master. Tape is the cheapest part of your trip, and some of the shots you might get, will never happen again, even if you could afford to go back. Just my thoughts...... __________________ Don DesJardin