This XL-H1 camera does everything my Z1U camera does.... at DVinfo.net

Shannon Rawls · December 15th, 2005, 06:32 PM

1. From shot transtitions (like the automatic focus and zoom pulling)
2. to locking or unlocking DV audio
3. to Peaking & Magnifying for best focus adjustments
4. to AV-->DV conversions
5. to HDV footage downconverting from your recorded HDV tape
6. to ext. controling another device via IEEE1394 and letting it continue to record if tape runs out
7. to total timecode and userbit settings
8. to complete EVF color correction
and more.

Now there ARE some things that the SONY Z1U has that the Canon XL-H1 does not have that are worth noting......

1. The Z1U has 2 different color bars type
2. it has an audio limiter even when in manual
3. it has an audio trim adjustment
4. they both have steadyshot, but the sony have various TYPES of steadyshot
5. it can downconvert footage to letterbox & crop in addition to the squeeze mode! (xlh1 only does anamorphic)
6. it has that pretty melody music when switching buttons *smile*
7. it has a usage/drum hours meter
8. it has +9 & +15 db gain as well as the others
9. it has that cool color correction feature
10. *important* it has PAL format for free
11. *important* and for the stab in the back....it has the ability to downconvert LIVE footage to DV while recording HDV to tape!

unfortunately the Canon XL-H1 doesn't do any of those tings above. And thats it. Those are the things the Sony has/does that Canon can only dream of!

*mourning*

*sigh*

OK....But are you ready for the list of stuff the XL-H1 has the the Sony Z1U doesn't??? (i hope i have enough room here) lol

1. *important* The XL-H1 has FOUR CHANNELS of audio in HDV & DV mode
2. *important* it has the ability to be controlled externally from a laptop computer
3. *important* it has ltc timecode in & out along with genlock and hd/sd sdi
4. it has BNC for composite video in/out
5. it has Real RCA jacks for connectivity
6. *important* it has a built in 2.1 megapixel camera
7. *important* it has a slot for an SD card that can save TOTAL CAMERA INFO to be swapped with others, studied or examined before & after shooting
8. it has a mic that can be switched from stereo to mono
9. *important* it has 1/48th shutter speed!
10. it displays the audio levels at all times, even if in auto mode
11. *important* it displays focus distance in feet or meters
12. it has clearscan
13. it has the ability to use your 6 custom presets AND NAME THEM to whatevever you want or to use NONE AT ALL
14. it can accept userbit information from aan external source
15. *important* it can AUTOMATICALLY set your cassettes userbit information to DATE or TIME
16. it can SUPER IMPOSE camera settings and info on top of the photos you take (for your DP when scouting those locations)
17. *important* it has REFERENCE TONE of 1khz!
18. *important* it can let you monitor the recorded audio signal or the LINE OUT SIGNAL via headphones!
19. *important* it has 2.35:1 MARKERS!!! (along with a bunch others)
20. it can display your timecode and userbit info on the screen simultaneously
21. it can FLIP THE EVF without a magnet for use with the Micro35 adapter!
22. it can FREEZE the timecode while recording (but still be going internally)
23. *important* t doesn't take 20 years to 'wake up' from styandby to begin recording again
24. during playback of tapes, it displays ALL THE DATA CODE simultaneously if you want
25. it has -3db gain option
26. *important* it's prettier!

*smile*

Now....take your pick.
Personally, i think the canon is spankin' the sony's ass all up and down the street like he brought home a bad report card to a down south black momma who ain't havin' that!

Ofcourse...you have to pay for that extra (but awesome & extremely usefull) functionality.

The few things that the sony does not do...I will not miss one bit, and NONE of them will effect a film-shoot or DP's effectiveness. Albeit, I am happy it downconverts the HDV tapes to DV via FireWire (i am pretty bummed out that it doesnt downconvert to DV via FireWire while recording to HDV to tape) But Psshhhhhhh, it's better then nothing! The JVC HD100 doesn't downconvert ANYTHING AT ALL!

- ShannonRawls.com

Darrell Essex · December 15th, 2005, 06:49 PM

shannon, did you know that sony was a no show at the dv expo?
can't wait until i can figure out a cost effective way to record the uncompressed video.
hope to get one soon.
maybe after NAB.
Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Shannon Rawls · December 15th, 2005, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darrell Essex

shannon, did you know that sony was a no show at the dv expo?

Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Huh....what the heck are you talking about? Are you telling me SONY DID NOT HAVE A BOOTH AT THE DV EXPO WEST IN LOS ANGELES???

You're kidding right!!

I was busy at the Hollywod DV Festival so I couldn't come by...but that's IMPOSSIBLE that Sony would not be at the Expo.

You must have missed their booth! *smile*

- ShannonRawls.com

Darrell Essex · December 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM

i looked once then twice i looked high to see the big sony sign they always have and saw nothing.
maybe someone else can conferm this.
my guess is they new all the attinion would be on canon and panasonic.
we'll see if they have something up there sleave at NAB.
Darrell
FIRST CINEMA PICTURES

Tim Kolb · December 15th, 2005, 08:08 PM

At this point there are a ot of manufacturers examining their tradeshow committments. There are now so many different shows, that half the year of many of these marketing people is spent flying to one coast or the other to attend a show. This is a good way to burn up your budget, and burn OUT your staff...and yes, Sony wasn't there.

Take it as a sign that at least one manufacturer is saying "OK...there's just too many."

As the shows start to close, participation levels will go up again. It's just hard to justify the price of participation for all these shows when the audiences are getting more and more fragmented...

Barry Green · December 15th, 2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

Personally, i think the canon is spankin' the sony's ass all up and down the street like he brought home a bad report card to a down south black momma who ain't havin' that!

Quote of the month.

Quote of the month!

(and Shannon, you left a couple out: 24F mode, and the ability to interchange the lens, and the ability to zoom to 108mm, and the ability to interchange the viewfinder, and the ability to input & jam-sync timecode...)

Barry Green · December 15th, 2005, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shannon Rawls

Huh....what the heck are you talking about? Are you telling me SONY DID NOT HAVE A BOOTH AT THE DV EXPO WEST IN LOS ANGELES???

You're kidding right!!

I was busy at the Hollywod DV Festival so I couldn't come by...but that's IMPOSSIBLE that Sony would not be at the Expo.

For the first day or two, this was true. They paid for the booth space but then didn't show. I guess it really started to look bad for them so on the third day they threw something together for days 3 and 4, but it was kind of embarrassing compared to the other three manufacturers' setups...

Tim Kolb · December 15th, 2005, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

For the first day or two, this was true. They paid for the booth space but then didn't show. I guess it really started to look bad for them so on the third day they threw something together for days 3 and 4, but it was kind of embarrassing compared to the other three manufacturers' setups...

Ah...well there you go. I wasn't at the show, I just know that I was told a month or so preceeding the show that Sony would not attend.

Interesting.

Shannon Rawls · December 16th, 2005, 06:16 PM

The XL-H1 lens' telephoto is exactly TWICE as long as the Sony lens is, but the Sony lens is a little wider then the XL-H1 lens (and you can tell)..

Sony - 4.5 - 54 mm
Canon - 5.4 - 108mm

While that extra long length is nice for surveillance, nature, sports, & long shots.......I'd rather have a wider lens (for narrative movie making)

They both stop down to f1.6 on wide. In full telephoto, the Sony is f2.8 while the Canon is f3.5

The Sony goes to f11 before closing. The Canon goes to f9.5 before closing.

(the JVC lens stops down to f1.4 (faster then both Sony & Canon) and goes to f16 before closing. At distance at wide&tele is 5.5mm to 88mm. So it's just as wide as Canon, but not as long. It's longer then Sony, but not as wide.)

So...in my opinion, the Sony lens is better for moviemaking out the box.

Just thought I'd point that out.

- ShannonRawls.com

Bill Pryor · December 16th, 2005, 06:53 PM

One more thing Sony has that Canon doesn't: a deck. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), there isn't a deck on the market that will play 24F or 30F footage from the Canon. So you're stuck with using the camera as a deck. That's (a) a pretty damn expensive deck, and (b) a problem if, like me, you often shoot while somebody else is editing what you shot the previous day. Except for that, I like the Canon better than the Sony; but not being able to use a deck would be a deal killer for me.

Shannon Rawls · December 16th, 2005, 07:20 PM

Decks are coming. Let the camera out first. LOL The FX1 didn't have a deck for months!

- Shannon

Bill Pryor · December 16th, 2005, 08:18 PM

Yeah, but the FX1 is a total consumer camera, while the Z1 is closer to a professional tool. It had a deck when it was introduced. One problem I'm having with HDV these days is that it appears we're going to have 3 formats: Sony, JVC and Canon. They're all HDV, but a JVC tape won't play on a Sony deck and a Sony tape won't play on a JVC deck and a Canon tape won't play on a Sony deck unless it's recorded interlaced. At least that's what I've been reading. If a single standard that will play on all decks (assuming there will be more decks) doesn't appear soon, there will be problems with professional use of the format, I think. I realize in the early days of DV we had DV/DVCAM and then Panasonic's DVCPRO, and neither would play on the other's decks. However, it didn't take long before Sony DVCAM decks would play DVCPRO tapes and vice versa. So maybe there's hope. However, with NAB only a few months away...I'd wait if I were seriously in the market at this time.

Shannon Rawls · December 16th, 2005, 09:20 PM

true true...

But the way I see it now...there are only TWO formats: the new 720 and the new 1080.

The new 720 is what the HD100 will handle...backwards compatible with previous versions of 720
The new 1080 is what the XL-H1 will handle...backwards compatible with previous versions of 1080

With those two cameras, you can play and digitize any and all HDV ever made.

Just that simple.

- ShannonRawls.com

Greg Boston · December 17th, 2005, 07:55 AM

Plus, if I'm not mistaken, JVC actually calls their format 'ProHD', not HDV. Does the official HDV logo appear anywhere on the JVC? I don't recall seeing it on there at NAB.

-gb-

Barry Green · December 17th, 2005, 02:47 PM

Yes it says HDV all over it. It' sthe only JVC camera that ever has said HDV on it.

The original marketing made it sound like ProHD was their own new format, but they've since clarified that no, it's HDV, ProHD is just more of a marketing term. Just like ProfessionalDV, the label they applied to the original DV500 camera -- it was regular DV, but they wanted to differentiate it from consumer DV.

December 15th, 2005, 06:32 PM	#1
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	This XL-H1 camera does everything my Z1U camera does.... 1. From shot transtitions (like the automatic focus and zoom pulling) 2. to locking or unlocking DV audio 3. to Peaking & Magnifying for best focus adjustments 4. to AV-->DV conversions 5. to HDV footage downconverting from your recorded HDV tape 6. to ext. controling another device via IEEE1394 and letting it continue to record if tape runs out 7. to total timecode and userbit settings 8. to complete EVF color correction and more. Now there ARE some things that the SONY Z1U has that the Canon XL-H1 does not have that are worth noting...... 1. The Z1U has 2 different color bars type 2. it has an audio limiter even when in manual 3. it has an audio trim adjustment 4. they both have steadyshot, but the sony have various TYPES of steadyshot 5. it can downconvert footage to letterbox & crop in addition to the squeeze mode! (xlh1 only does anamorphic) 6. it has that pretty melody music when switching buttons smile 7. it has a usage/drum hours meter 8. it has +9 & +15 db gain as well as the others 9. it has that cool color correction feature 10. important it has PAL format for free 11. important and for the stab in the back....it has the ability to downconvert LIVE footage to DV while recording HDV to tape! unfortunately the Canon XL-H1 doesn't do any of those tings above. And thats it. Those are the things the Sony has/does that Canon can only dream of! mourning sigh OK....But are you ready for the list of stuff the XL-H1 has the the Sony Z1U doesn't??? (i hope i have enough room here) lol 1. important The XL-H1 has FOUR CHANNELS of audio in HDV & DV mode 2. important it has the ability to be controlled externally from a laptop computer 3. important it has ltc timecode in & out along with genlock and hd/sd sdi 4. it has BNC for composite video in/out 5. it has Real RCA jacks for connectivity 6. important it has a built in 2.1 megapixel camera 7. important it has a slot for an SD card that can save TOTAL CAMERA INFO to be swapped with others, studied or examined before & after shooting 8. it has a mic that can be switched from stereo to mono 9. important it has 1/48th shutter speed! 10. it displays the audio levels at all times, even if in auto mode 11. important it displays focus distance in feet or meters 12. it has clearscan 13. it has the ability to use your 6 custom presets AND NAME THEM to whatevever you want or to use NONE AT ALL 14. it can accept userbit information from aan external source 15. important it can AUTOMATICALLY set your cassettes userbit information to DATE or TIME 16. it can SUPER IMPOSE camera settings and info on top of the photos you take (for your DP when scouting those locations) 17. important it has REFERENCE TONE of 1khz! 18. important it can let you monitor the recorded audio signal or the LINE OUT SIGNAL via headphones! 19. important it has 2.35:1 MARKERS!!! (along with a bunch others) 20. it can display your timecode and userbit info on the screen simultaneously 21. it can FLIP THE EVF without a magnet for use with the Micro35 adapter! 22. it can FREEZE the timecode while recording (but still be going internally) 23. important t doesn't take 20 years to 'wake up' from styandby to begin recording again 24. during playback of tapes, it displays ALL THE DATA CODE simultaneously if you want 25. it has -3db gain option 26. important it's prettier! smile Now....take your pick. Personally, i think the canon is spankin' the sony's ass all up and down the street like he brought home a bad report card to a down south black momma who ain't havin' that! Ofcourse...you have to pay for that extra (but awesome & extremely usefull) functionality. The few things that the sony does not do...I will not miss one bit, and NONE of them will effect a film-shoot or DP's effectiveness. Albeit, I am happy it downconverts the HDV tapes to DV via FireWire (i am pretty bummed out that it doesnt downconvert to DV via FireWire while recording to HDV to tape) But Psshhhhhhh, it's better then nothing! The JVC HD100 doesn't downconvert ANYTHING AT ALL! - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 15th, 2005, 06:49 PM	#2
Darrell Essex Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kelseyville, ca Posts: 123	Sony, no show shannon, did you know that sony was a no show at the dv expo? can't wait until i can figure out a cost effective way to record the uncompressed video. hope to get one soon. maybe after NAB. Darrell FIRST CINEMA PICTURES __________________ darrell

December 15th, 2005, 07:55 PM	#4
Darrell Essex Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: kelseyville, ca Posts: 123	i looked once then twice i looked high to see the big sony sign they always have and saw nothing. maybe someone else can conferm this. my guess is they new all the attinion would be on canon and panasonic. we'll see if they have something up there sleave at NAB. Darrell FIRST CINEMA PICTURES __________________ darrell

December 16th, 2005, 06:16 PM	#9
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Lens Differences..... The XL-H1 lens' telephoto is exactly TWICE as long as the Sony lens is, but the Sony lens is a little wider then the XL-H1 lens (and you can tell).. Sony - 4.5 - 54 mm Canon - 5.4 - 108mm While that extra long length is nice for surveillance, nature, sports, & long shots.......I'd rather have a wider lens (for narrative movie making) They both stop down to f1.6 on wide. In full telephoto, the Sony is f2.8 while the Canon is f3.5 The Sony goes to f11 before closing. The Canon goes to f9.5 before closing. (the JVC lens stops down to f1.4 (faster then both Sony & Canon) and goes to f16 before closing. At distance at wide&tele is 5.5mm to 88mm. So it's just as wide as Canon, but not as long. It's longer then Sony, but not as wide.) So...in my opinion, the Sony lens is better for moviemaking out the box. Just thought I'd point that out. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 16th, 2005, 07:20 PM	#11
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	Decks are coming. Let the camera out first. LOL The FX1 didn't have a deck for months! - Shannon __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 15th, 2005, 08:08 PM	#5
Tim Kolb Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Neenah, WI Posts: 547	At this point there are a ot of manufacturers examining their tradeshow committments. There are now so many different shows, that half the year of many of these marketing people is spent flying to one coast or the other to attend a show. This is a good way to burn up your budget, and burn OUT your staff...and yes, Sony wasn't there. Take it as a sign that at least one manufacturer is saying "OK...there's just too many." As the shows start to close, participation levels will go up again. It's just hard to justify the price of participation for all these shows when the audiences are getting more and more fragmented...

December 16th, 2005, 06:53 PM	#10
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	One more thing Sony has that Canon doesn't: a deck. As I understand it (correct me if I'm wrong), there isn't a deck on the market that will play 24F or 30F footage from the Canon. So you're stuck with using the camera as a deck. That's (a) a pretty damn expensive deck, and (b) a problem if, like me, you often shoot while somebody else is editing what you shot the previous day. Except for that, I like the Canon better than the Sony; but not being able to use a deck would be a deal killer for me.

December 16th, 2005, 08:18 PM	#12
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Yeah, but the FX1 is a total consumer camera, while the Z1 is closer to a professional tool. It had a deck when it was introduced. One problem I'm having with HDV these days is that it appears we're going to have 3 formats: Sony, JVC and Canon. They're all HDV, but a JVC tape won't play on a Sony deck and a Sony tape won't play on a JVC deck and a Canon tape won't play on a Sony deck unless it's recorded interlaced. At least that's what I've been reading. If a single standard that will play on all decks (assuming there will be more decks) doesn't appear soon, there will be problems with professional use of the format, I think. I realize in the early days of DV we had DV/DVCAM and then Panasonic's DVCPRO, and neither would play on the other's decks. However, it didn't take long before Sony DVCAM decks would play DVCPRO tapes and vice versa. So maybe there's hope. However, with NAB only a few months away...I'd wait if I were seriously in the market at this time.

December 16th, 2005, 09:20 PM	#13
Shannon Rawls Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 853	true true... But the way I see it now...there are only TWO formats: the new 720 and the new 1080. The new 720 is what the HD100 will handle...backwards compatible with previous versions of 720 The new 1080 is what the XL-H1 will handle...backwards compatible with previous versions of 1080 With those two cameras, you can play and digitize any and all HDV ever made. Just that simple. - ShannonRawls.com __________________ Shannon W. Rawls ~ Motion Picture Producer & huge advocate of Digital Acquisition.

December 17th, 2005, 07:55 AM	#14
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Plus, if I'm not mistaken, JVC actually calls their format 'ProHD', not HDV. Does the official HDV logo appear anywhere on the JVC? I don't recall seeing it on there at NAB. -gb-

December 17th, 2005, 02:47 PM	#15
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Yes it says HDV all over it. It' sthe only JVC camera that ever has said HDV on it. The original marketing made it sound like ProHD was their own new format, but they've since clarified that no, it's HDV, ProHD is just more of a marketing term. Just like ProfessionalDV, the label they applied to the original DV500 camera -- it was regular DV, but they wanted to differentiate it from consumer DV.