Compare XL-H1 to DSR450 please at DVinfo.net

Anthony Marotti · November 29th, 2005, 06:48 AM

Hello :-)

There was a discussion on the XL2 forum and someone brought up this issue and I wanted some opinions that the guys over there couldn't give, so this piggy-backs on that prior discussion.

Although the Canon is new, maybe someone here can give me some insight.

OK the 400 is 4:3 and won't do 24p, the 450 can do 16:9 and 24p. The large chips and great signal processing and optics make these cameras real winners for the price.

And I agree that although the Canons SD cams give great picture... they can't compare to the bigger cameras like the above mentioned Sony's.

But how would you stack the 450 up against the new Canon XL-H1?

Same goes, the Canon chips are smaller and the DSP may use a lower spec, so the image on the Sony's will have those advantages... But HDV with the higher resolution and the higher color space will alter the result.

What do you think??

And let's not consider price, just image comparisons.

Thanks !!
__________________

John M Burkhart · November 29th, 2005, 07:27 AM

Well assuming that you're talking only about SD pictures.

I would say that you will get a much much nicer image in almost every way from the 450, and it's 2/3" chips, pro-lens etc., Than you will from a downconverted 1080i image from the H1.

Of course the H1 isn't really available yet, so this is based on what i've seen off of the Sony Z1.

Having also shot DV off of sony's previous full size DV camcorder.

Anthony Marotti · November 29th, 2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John M Burkhart

Well assuming that you're talking only about SD pictures.

I would say that you will get a much much nicer image in almost every way from the 450, and it's 2/3" chips, pro-lens etc., Than you will from a downconverted 1080i image from the H1.

Of course the H1 isn't really available yet, so this is based on what i've seen off of the Sony Z1.

Having also shot DV off of sony's previous full size DV camcorder.

Thanks for the feedback!

What about the comparison if you up-converted the 450?

Thanks Again !!

John M Burkhart · November 29th, 2005, 09:54 PM

Well, I've used some upconverted DV footage in an HDV project, and it was better than I thought it would be. Still comparitively the HDV footage was a lot cleaner, detailed and visually compelling as you would expect.

So regarding HD footage, I'm sure the H1 would give a much better image than the upconverted 450.

So it really matters what your distribution format is, and choose or rent the camera that's best for that particular shoot.

Ash Greyson · November 30th, 2005, 12:37 AM

Have you shot much with a 2/3" CCD camera? HUGE difference. I would pick the 2/3" SD counterpart to any 1/3" CCD HD/HDV camera.

ash =o)

Anthony Marotti · November 30th, 2005, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

Have you shot much with a 2/3" CCD camera? HUGE difference. I would pick the 2/3" SD counterpart to any 1/3" CCD HD/HDV camera.

ash =o)

Thanks for the feedback so far guys!

I feel that the 450 would give me a superior DV picture quality as well, but so many people have argued that point against me that it is frustrating. That is why I turn to this community for opinion, I trust your points of view.

As far as the right camera for the right delivery... well that is getting more difficult. I did a job for a major franchise and the footage was specifically designed to be shown on portable DVD players. No problem when viewed on the 10" screen or shown on an NTSC TV.

But I inadvertently viewed it on the clients HDTV in his office and I was shocked that the beautiful footage had now revealed every flaw possible. Now the colors were vivid and beautiful, but where I used a slow motion filter, or the steady move filter, the artifacts and jaggies were very visible. Also DV has aliasing issues anyway, but they were more evident on the HDTV.

So now-a-days you never know when a client will pop your program into a HDTV and I don't want to be embarrassed again.

What do you guys think a solution would be for a case like I described above?

Thanks!

Ian Richards · November 30th, 2005, 08:30 PM

IF you can hold off for the XDCAM HD should give a good result in SD and HD. Price is better than DSR450.

Cheers Ian

Anthony Marotti · December 1st, 2005, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian Richards

IF you can hold off for the XDCAM HD should give a good result in SD and HD. Price is better than DSR450.

Cheers Ian

Hello,

It looks like the 450 can be had for around $16K whereas the XDCAM HD will be around $20K. If I hear you correctly, you think street prices will be under $16K. Is that what you are saying?

That would be a great value as the XDCAM HD will do SD in DVCAM mode, so you have the best of both worlds.

However the dilemma still remains; what to shoot when your primary distribution is SD but is occasionally shown on HDTVs. The XDCAM HD may also be the solution here because the SD quality would certainly be better than a 1/3" chip camera.

Now the XDCAM HD uses 1/2" chips rather than 2/3" chips like the 450, so might the 450 still produce a better SD image?

Thanks!!

November 29th, 2005, 06:48 AM	#1
Anthony Marotti Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 263	Compare XL-H1 to DSR450 please Hello :-) There was a discussion on the XL2 forum and someone brought up this issue and I wanted some opinions that the guys over there couldn't give, so this piggy-backs on that prior discussion. Although the Canon is new, maybe someone here can give me some insight. OK the 400 is 4:3 and won't do 24p, the 450 can do 16:9 and 24p. The large chips and great signal processing and optics make these cameras real winners for the price. And I agree that although the Canons SD cams give great picture... they can't compare to the bigger cameras like the above mentioned Sony's. But how would you stack the 450 up against the new Canon XL-H1? Same goes, the Canon chips are smaller and the DSP may use a lower spec, so the image on the Sony's will have those advantages... But HDV with the higher resolution and the higher color space will alter the result. What do you think?? And let's not consider price, just image comparisons. Thanks !! __________________ __________________ AM

November 30th, 2005, 08:30 PM	#7
Ian Richards New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 5	Compare XL-H1 to DSR450 IF you can hold off for the XDCAM HD should give a good result in SD and HD. Price is better than DSR450. Cheers Ian

November 29th, 2005, 07:27 AM	#2
John M Burkhart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 97	Well assuming that you're talking only about SD pictures. I would say that you will get a much much nicer image in almost every way from the 450, and it's 2/3" chips, pro-lens etc., Than you will from a downconverted 1080i image from the H1. Of course the H1 isn't really available yet, so this is based on what i've seen off of the Sony Z1. Having also shot DV off of sony's previous full size DV camcorder.

November 29th, 2005, 09:54 PM	#4
John M Burkhart Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 97	Well, I've used some upconverted DV footage in an HDV project, and it was better than I thought it would be. Still comparitively the HDV footage was a lot cleaner, detailed and visually compelling as you would expect. So regarding HD footage, I'm sure the H1 would give a much better image than the upconverted 450. So it really matters what your distribution format is, and choose or rent the camera that's best for that particular shoot.

November 30th, 2005, 12:37 AM	#5
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Have you shot much with a 2/3" CCD camera? HUGE difference. I would pick the 2/3" SD counterpart to any 1/3" CCD HD/HDV camera. ash =o)