Just saw the XL H1 today...here's my report!

Hayden Rivers · November 18th, 2005, 08:08 PM

Instead of capturing to tape, can you capture 60i and 24f HDV to harddisk using Firestore, DV Rack or something similar? It would make the prospect of being tied to the XL-H1 for logging more palatible.

Barry Green · November 18th, 2005, 09:05 PM

I'm certain you could capture the 60i to HDV Rack. Don't know about whether they support 24f or 30f yet, but I'd expect them to implement that if it doesn't handle it already.

And what about Canon's laptop firewire control program -- doesn't that capture too? Couldn't you use that as well?

Chris Hurd · November 18th, 2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

And what about Canon's laptop firewire control program -- doesn't that capture too?

Yes indeed. The "Console" software manages recording direct to hard drive.

Eric Brown · November 18th, 2005, 11:37 PM

[QUOTE=Jae Staats]
the video was STUNNING! I literally thought I was watching a movie in the theatre.

Funny when I hear people sum up their experience when seeing this piece of footage. Exactly my experience as well. Stunned by what I saw, shortly followed by the "This looks like a regular movie I'd see in the theatre" thought. Although a real world side by side comparison with the same scene shot on 35mm would obviously yield different results. To my eye, I wasn't feeling any difference.
I would still love to see the HDV footage, though.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 19th, 2005, 05:09 AM

So was that footage that everyone called stunning not HDV but HD? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I read the 60i images were captured on tape, but I didn't think I read that that professional video was also captured on tape.
And I know it's stupid to ask if the camera hasn't been released yet, but do persons think capturing to tape will make much difference? I mean in the final image quality?
Thanks,

Pete Bauer · November 19th, 2005, 05:30 AM

Jae can confirm this, but I think he indicated that at the session he attended, they didn't say whether the 24F was shot and displayed on HDV or was HD-SDI out. I've talked informally with one or two other people who have seen the same video, and the impression I got was that it was all HDV but some of it used a mini35 -- but I CANNOT confirm that...it is second-hand from others.

There's no question that HDV2 with 4:2:0 and MPEG-2 compression is not going to match the quality of HD-SDI with 4:2:2 uncompressed. What's the open question is just how close the HDV will come. If we are lucky, it'll be close enough that HDV will be satisfactory for general use, so the more expensive HD-SDI work would only really be necessary for demanding professional studio / compositing work.

In any case, the impression is coming across pretty clearly from early reports such as the one in this thread that what comes out of the camera head is going to be superb, and will allow HDV to look about as good as HDV can look. When I get my H1 (hopefully soon!), I'll certainly be doing some torture-testing and will report!

Thomas Smet · November 19th, 2005, 10:43 AM

I finally got a chance to see the uncompressed HD clip Kaku made when we had the XLH1. To be honest it didn't look that much different than the HDV footage he shot. SDI doesn't magically make the video look any better but takes away any level of compression. On HD 4:2:0 actually looks very good so there wasn't that much of a gain having 4:2:2. Well at least with this clip there wasn't. The clip was very dull and grey in tone so there wasn't a whole lot of deep colors. Capturing from SDI doesn't really make the video look light years better. This is especially true for the type of video you would have seen in that presentation where the camera was used in a very professional environment. Yes there were no compression artifacts at all in the clip but those are already fairly minor even with HDV on the XLH1. Other than in extreme FX work with precise keying I think you would really have a hard time finding someone that could tell the difference between SDI HD and HDV from the camera. (well at least so in most film like shooting setups. Maybe a super fast high action movie may give you an edge)

This uncompressed clip was 60I so I still couldn't check to see if the chroma from SDI is still 4:2:2 or if it was interpolated in the process to get to 24F.

Joe Brockert · November 20th, 2005, 08:33 PM

I wish all had more info. Jae said "Improvements include auto/manual tweaking" of the lens. What does this mean? Can the lens be operated in full manual focus? Another thing that somewhat confuses me is the viewfinder. Does it really just switch to monochrome? If these things were true, that would be great! The cost of the H1 wouldn't be as bad to swallow. Just think, many pros want to upgrade to the 16x manual lens and a FU1000 Monochromatic finder. At $1,400 for the lens and $1,800 for the finder. Maybe I'm missing something, $9,500-$1,400-$1,800=$6,300. Easy to swallow if what I think is true. I wouldn't need to upgrade.

Thank, Joe

Chris Hurd · November 20th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Brockert

Can the lens be operated in full manual focus?

Yes, just like all of the previous XL series auto lenses before it. No difference here except now you have focus distance readout in meters or feet, plus the focus position preset function.

Quote:

Another thing that somewhat confuses me is the viewfinder. Does it really just switch to monochrome?

Yes, you can assign one of the custom keys to switch the color LCD to monochrome whenever you want. This isn't quite the same thing as the monochrome CRT viewfinder, as there is a sunstantial difference between LCD and CRT displays, but it's still pretty cool anyway.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 21st, 2005, 03:34 PM

But the lens still isn't completely manual? you still can't rack or do you?
I think it's a little bit a pitty Canon doesn't do this, but one can't have everything.

Chris Hurd · November 21st, 2005, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

you still can't rack or do you?

Rack focus is the easiest thing in the world with either the 20x auto lens for the XL2 or the 20x HD auto lens for the XL H1. Just set your desired focus position preset, and the move is repeatable all day long. It's even better with the 20x HD auto lens, because the focus distance readout is in the display... like having a tape measure built right in. You can dial in an exact focal plane distance in meters or feet. Simple, easy, accurate, repeatable.

Lloyd Ranola · November 22nd, 2005, 04:57 PM

I just checked out the camera yesterday (Canon came to our offices).

The rack focus is still very easy to do w/ the H1... I think the new manual focus ring actually feels much better than the older XL lenses... but you're right, still not a manual lens, so although you have to look at the zoom settings in the viewfinder (based on the 'rounded off' increments), it's not quite as accurate (but pretty darn close) to having a manual lens.

Mathieu Ghekiere · November 22nd, 2005, 05:25 PM

Thanks for the information, Chris and Lloyd.

Obin Olson · November 25th, 2005, 06:00 PM

I wait for the images and video of this "hollywood" shot footage, I would guess this would provide the level of shots I am looking for as this is much more inline with how our company shoots then the "run-and-gun DOC" style stuff of the mountain biker and the city night shots...

waiting....waiting...waiting...
what to buy???

;)

-Obin Olson

Lloyd Ranola · November 28th, 2005, 11:14 AM

I'm planning to host demo's of this camera next month at my office (Bay Area).. but hopefully not without that footage....

Obin... ps.. i'm huge into cycling and Mt. Biking... tell me more!! :-)

November 19th, 2005, 05:30 AM	#21
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Jae can confirm this, but I think he indicated that at the session he attended, they didn't say whether the 24F was shot and displayed on HDV or was HD-SDI out. I've talked informally with one or two other people who have seen the same video, and the impression I got was that it was all HDV but some of it used a mini35 -- but I CANNOT confirm that...it is second-hand from others. There's no question that HDV2 with 4:2:0 and MPEG-2 compression is not going to match the quality of HD-SDI with 4:2:2 uncompressed. What's the open question is just how close the HDV will come. If we are lucky, it'll be close enough that HDV will be satisfactory for general use, so the more expensive HD-SDI work would only really be necessary for demanding professional studio / compositing work. In any case, the impression is coming across pretty clearly from early reports such as the one in this thread that what comes out of the camera head is going to be superb, and will allow HDV to look about as good as HDV can look. When I get my H1 (hopefully soon!), I'll certainly be doing some torture-testing and will report! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

November 18th, 2005, 08:08 PM	#16
Hayden Rivers Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 53	Instead of capturing to tape, can you capture 60i and 24f HDV to harddisk using Firestore, DV Rack or something similar? It would make the prospect of being tied to the XL-H1 for logging more palatible.

November 18th, 2005, 09:05 PM	#17
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I'm certain you could capture the 60i to HDV Rack. Don't know about whether they support 24f or 30f yet, but I'd expect them to implement that if it doesn't handle it already. And what about Canon's laptop firewire control program -- doesn't that capture too? Couldn't you use that as well?

November 18th, 2005, 11:37 PM	#19
Eric Brown Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 427	[QUOTE=Jae Staats] the video was STUNNING! I literally thought I was watching a movie in the theatre. Funny when I hear people sum up their experience when seeing this piece of footage. Exactly my experience as well. Stunned by what I saw, shortly followed by the "This looks like a regular movie I'd see in the theatre" thought. Although a real world side by side comparison with the same scene shot on 35mm would obviously yield different results. To my eye, I wasn't feeling any difference. I would still love to see the HDV footage, though.

November 19th, 2005, 05:09 AM	#20
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	So was that footage that everyone called stunning not HDV but HD? Sorry if it's a stupid question, I read the 60i images were captured on tape, but I didn't think I read that that professional video was also captured on tape. And I know it's stupid to ask if the camera hasn't been released yet, but do persons think capturing to tape will make much difference? I mean in the final image quality? Thanks,

November 19th, 2005, 10:43 AM	#22
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I finally got a chance to see the uncompressed HD clip Kaku made when we had the XLH1. To be honest it didn't look that much different than the HDV footage he shot. SDI doesn't magically make the video look any better but takes away any level of compression. On HD 4:2:0 actually looks very good so there wasn't that much of a gain having 4:2:2. Well at least with this clip there wasn't. The clip was very dull and grey in tone so there wasn't a whole lot of deep colors. Capturing from SDI doesn't really make the video look light years better. This is especially true for the type of video you would have seen in that presentation where the camera was used in a very professional environment. Yes there were no compression artifacts at all in the clip but those are already fairly minor even with HDV on the XLH1. Other than in extreme FX work with precise keying I think you would really have a hard time finding someone that could tell the difference between SDI HD and HDV from the camera. (well at least so in most film like shooting setups. Maybe a super fast high action movie may give you an edge) This uncompressed clip was 60I so I still couldn't check to see if the chroma from SDI is still 4:2:2 or if it was interpolated in the process to get to 24F.

November 20th, 2005, 08:33 PM	#23
Joe Brockert New Boot Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bellevue, Washington, United States Posts: 13	I wish all had more info. Jae said "Improvements include auto/manual tweaking" of the lens. What does this mean? Can the lens be operated in full manual focus? Another thing that somewhat confuses me is the viewfinder. Does it really just switch to monochrome? If these things were true, that would be great! The cost of the H1 wouldn't be as bad to swallow. Just think, many pros want to upgrade to the 16x manual lens and a FU1000 Monochromatic finder. At $1,400 for the lens and $1,800 for the finder. Maybe I'm missing something, $9,500-$1,400-$1,800=$6,300. Easy to swallow if what I think is true. I wouldn't need to upgrade. Thank, Joe

November 21st, 2005, 03:34 PM	#25
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	But the lens still isn't completely manual? you still can't rack or do you? I think it's a little bit a pitty Canon doesn't do this, but one can't have everything.

November 22nd, 2005, 04:57 PM	#27
Lloyd Ranola New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8	I just checked out the camera yesterday (Canon came to our offices). The rack focus is still very easy to do w/ the H1... I think the new manual focus ring actually feels much better than the older XL lenses... but you're right, still not a manual lens, so although you have to look at the zoom settings in the viewfinder (based on the 'rounded off' increments), it's not quite as accurate (but pretty darn close) to having a manual lens.

November 22nd, 2005, 05:25 PM	#28
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Thanks for the information, Chris and Lloyd.

November 25th, 2005, 06:00 PM	#29
Obin Olson Trustee Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wilmington NC Posts: 1,414	I wait for the images and video of this "hollywood" shot footage, I would guess this would provide the level of shots I am looking for as this is much more inline with how our company shoots then the "run-and-gun DOC" style stuff of the mountain biker and the city night shots... waiting....waiting...waiting... what to buy??? ;) -Obin Olson

November 28th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#30
Lloyd Ranola New Boot Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Oakland, CA Posts: 8	I'm planning to host demo's of this camera next month at my office (Bay Area).. but hopefully not without that footage.... Obin... ps.. i'm huge into cycling and Mt. Biking... tell me more!! :-)