Kaku Ito's XL H1 video clips now available for download

Soroush Shahrokni · October 2nd, 2005, 11:32 AM

Lauri, download the Aspect HD 15 day trial...its superb. I have only 3.2 trial installed but will download the 3.3 trial when my JVC arrives tomorrow since as far as I know only v3.3 supports the 25p of JVC and its physical interface.

I can almost promise that Cineform will support the Xl H1 and all its features (24, 25 & 30F) as well in future updates.

Nate Weaver · October 2nd, 2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Canon has something similar to JVC's "motion smoothing" in the XL H1. They're not calling it motion smoothing, but something like it is in there, no matter what the frame rate.

I'm not seeing it in the 24F I shot.

I see in a few of Kaku's shots what appears to be 1/24th shutter...which is east to do by mistake on that camera. There's a lot of buttons right next to that iris dial, including the two for the shutter.

I know it's hard to take one person's opinion for it, but what I saw yesterday, and have a little of on my drive now looks just like 24P from my HD100.

Soroush Shahrokni · October 2nd, 2005, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I know it's hard to take one person's opinion for it, but what I saw yesterday, and have a little of on my drive now looks just like 24P from my HD100.

Nate, if you have more 24F footage apart from the ones already posted, can you plz upload them? Id love to see it, thx!

Nate Weaver · October 2nd, 2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soroush Shahrokni

Nate, if you have more 24F footage apart from the ones already posted, can you plz upload them? Id love to see it, thx!

It's in a few of my posts back, in this thread. There's an HD100 clip right next to it also for comparison.

Steev Dinkins · October 2nd, 2005, 01:00 PM

Well, I must say I'm impressed so far. I don't have any HD gear, so I converted the m2t files to DV and played them on a broadcast monitor from Final Cut Pro. I'm big on progressive capture and the 24p look, so I thought I'd compare the 3 "bikeseq" clips back to back.

1 - interlaced, when you need it, it's there - classic "in the moment" reality look.

2 - 30F - definitely more narrative and filmic, but still smooth pans and motion.

3 - 24F - It looks just like what I'm getting with 24p with my XL2. I removed pull down with Cinema Tools, and it fit right into a 24p sequence in Final Cut Pro, no problem. I don't know what the official workflow would be with FCP.

Regarding the dynamic range, it looks like it's still very sensitive to highlight blowout. I'd like to see some footage with controlled lighting with no blow out whatsoever.

I really appreciate the posting of footage. I think the community here regarding Canon is world class, and that's what led me to purchasing the XL2 - the sample footage was readily available, proudly posted, and gorgeous.

I'm looking forward to seeing more from the XL-H1, and also the mysterious HVX200.

Stephen van Vuuren · October 2nd, 2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steev Dinkins

3 - 24F - It looks just like what I'm getting with 24p with my XL2. I removed pull down with Cinema Tools, and it fit right into a 24p sequence in Final Cut Pro, no problem.

I don't see any pulldown in the 24F clips - what are you removing?

Stephen van Vuuren · October 2nd, 2005, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

I see in a few of Kaku's shots what appears to be 1/24th shutter...which is east to do by mistake on that camera. I know it's hard to take one person's opinion for it, but what I saw yesterday, and have a little of on my drive now looks just like 24P from my HD100.

If Barry is right, 1/24th would be a slow digital shutter as the CCD is grabbing images every 1/48th. That would soften the image although the images you shot showed the same effect to my eye, so "motion smoothing" or deinterlacing seems more likely.

I agree the motion looks 24fps but it does somewhat look like moving objects lose rez.

Nate Weaver · October 2nd, 2005, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

I agree the motion looks 24fps but it does somewhat look like moving objects lose rez.

You're right, they do. But it happens on the Sonys, and also on my HD100. The effect is more pronounced in HDV 1080.

Stephen van Vuuren · October 2nd, 2005, 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate Weaver

You're right, they do. But it happens on the Sonys, and also on my HD100. The effect is more pronounced in HDV 1080.

But on the clips you posted, it looked much more on the H1 - you are saying that's just due to codec issues on HDV and not 24F deinterlacing?

Nick Hiltgen · October 2nd, 2005, 02:00 PM

Stephan, I believe he removed the pull down after he had converted to dv (I.E. 24F to 29.97 to 23.98) I think it's also important to be careful how we compare footage, as the test that Charles did with hd100 also used the mini 35 adapter which would be another key issue in adding "film look"

Stephen L. Noe · October 2nd, 2005, 02:13 PM

Hi,

The resolution is very high as expected. So high in fact that you can scale the image immensely. I've made an example for you, you'll want to see this:

Click here for wmv

Couple of observations. The footage is slow to edit even on a twin processor computer (same as Sony). Get ready to wait for rendering because multiple streams in real time are almost impossible. The clips in the CX color corrector show the highlights blasting 100IRE. Japan's NTSC is NTSC-MJ which puts their blacks at 0 IRE. In the supplied clips the blacks are right around 6.5 IRE. The footage looks like video right off a handy cam and I'm sure the settings will need to be adjusted. Are there any preset gamma curves prebuilt into the cameras menu?

All in all, it has the real resolution but the editing goes slow. The camera needs adjusting to get some more color range out of it.

Nate Weaver · October 2nd, 2005, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen van Vuuren

But on the clips you posted, it looked much more on the H1 - you are saying that's just due to codec issues on HDV and not 24F deinterlacing?

Yes. HDV1080 stretches the capabilities of the MPEG2 codec much more than HDV720.

My HD100 suffers (in my opinion) from less HDV artifacts than the XLH1, but the XLH1 has way more raw resolution. Pick your poison!

I was looking at uncompressed HD-SDI out of the camera straight to an HD CRT that had HD-SDI input yesterday. I saw nothing like blurred motion, I promise you.

Chris Hurd · October 2nd, 2005, 04:16 PM

Kaku's XL H1 clips, "Part Two -- The Sequel," now available at:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=52110

Please discuss those clips at the new thread linked above. Thanks in advance,

David Newman · October 2nd, 2005, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lauri Kettunen

My more immediate concern is, will my editing software (Premiere Pro) be able to import all the footages from XL H1. At least, it seems that currently the Premiere Pro HDV mode does not recognize 25P (25F).

Download Aspect HD for Premiere Pro (www.cineform.com) that will support all released HD modes of HDV cameras, and it almost works with all the modes of the XL H1 (needs a couple of tweaks.)

Thomas Smet · October 2nd, 2005, 06:21 PM

I think I may prefer 720p on the HD100 at this point. I always have been a huge fan of 720p for many reasons other than resolution and framerate. Such things as rendering 3D scenes and other graphics are naturally much much faster at 720p. Now after finally seeing footage from 3 groups of 1080i cameras, FX1/Z1, HC1/A1, and now the CANON XLH1 I can see almost the same level of quality. While the CANON does in my opinion look better than any current 1080i HDV camera 1080i is 1080i. The 24/30f modes seem to have the same overall look. At first I didn't agree on the other people on here but now I do see it. No matter what camera you use trying to cram 1080i into 25 Mbits is a tough job. For most things it handles it well but sometimes it falls apart. 720p HDV right now seems to handle things much better. Well at least from what I have seen so far. I have yet to see any major artifacts from any of the 720p footage I have seen.

I do think the XLH1 looks great but it still looks like HDV2 video to me. While I am sure the SDI video will look even better it will still have the same overall mood and feeling. I guess I have to decide if that is ok for me or using analog uncompressed from the JVC going to be better for me. For me now at this point it comes down to the certain look I want. I do think I am now leaning back towards the JVC

October 2nd, 2005, 02:00 PM	#70
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Stephan, I believe he removed the pull down after he had converted to dv (I.E. 24F to 29.97 to 23.98) I think it's also important to be careful how we compare footage, as the test that Charles did with hd100 also used the mini 35 adapter which would be another key issue in adding "film look" __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

October 2nd, 2005, 02:13 PM	#71
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	Blade Runner type shot using H1 footage Hi, The resolution is very high as expected. So high in fact that you can scale the image immensely. I've made an example for you, you'll want to see this: Click here for wmv Couple of observations. The footage is slow to edit even on a twin processor computer (same as Sony). Get ready to wait for rendering because multiple streams in real time are almost impossible. The clips in the CX color corrector show the highlights blasting 100IRE. Japan's NTSC is NTSC-MJ which puts their blacks at 0 IRE. In the supplied clips the blacks are right around 6.5 IRE. The footage looks like video right off a handy cam and I'm sure the settings will need to be adjusted. Are there any preset gamma curves prebuilt into the cameras menu? All in all, it has the real resolution but the editing goes slow. The camera needs adjusting to get some more color range out of it. Last edited by Stephen L. Noe; October 2nd, 2005 at 03:48 PM.

October 2nd, 2005, 04:16 PM	#73
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Kaku's XL H1 clips, "Part Two -- The Sequel," now available at: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=52110 Please discuss those clips at the new thread linked above. Thanks in advance, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

October 2nd, 2005, 11:32 AM	#61
Soroush Shahrokni Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Stockholm Posts: 100	Lauri, download the Aspect HD 15 day trial...its superb. I have only 3.2 trial installed but will download the 3.3 trial when my JVC arrives tomorrow since as far as I know only v3.3 supports the 25p of JVC and its physical interface. I can almost promise that Cineform will support the Xl H1 and all its features (24, 25 & 30F) as well in future updates.

October 2nd, 2005, 01:00 PM	#65
Steev Dinkins Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 613	Well, I must say I'm impressed so far. I don't have any HD gear, so I converted the m2t files to DV and played them on a broadcast monitor from Final Cut Pro. I'm big on progressive capture and the 24p look, so I thought I'd compare the 3 "bikeseq" clips back to back. 1 - interlaced, when you need it, it's there - classic "in the moment" reality look. 2 - 30F - definitely more narrative and filmic, but still smooth pans and motion. 3 - 24F - It looks just like what I'm getting with 24p with my XL2. I removed pull down with Cinema Tools, and it fit right into a 24p sequence in Final Cut Pro, no problem. I don't know what the official workflow would be with FCP. Regarding the dynamic range, it looks like it's still very sensitive to highlight blowout. I'd like to see some footage with controlled lighting with no blow out whatsoever. I really appreciate the posting of footage. I think the community here regarding Canon is world class, and that's what led me to purchasing the XL2 - the sample footage was readily available, proudly posted, and gorgeous. I'm looking forward to seeing more from the XL-H1, and also the mysterious HVX200.

October 2nd, 2005, 06:21 PM	#75
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	I think I may prefer 720p on the HD100 at this point. I always have been a huge fan of 720p for many reasons other than resolution and framerate. Such things as rendering 3D scenes and other graphics are naturally much much faster at 720p. Now after finally seeing footage from 3 groups of 1080i cameras, FX1/Z1, HC1/A1, and now the CANON XLH1 I can see almost the same level of quality. While the CANON does in my opinion look better than any current 1080i HDV camera 1080i is 1080i. The 24/30f modes seem to have the same overall look. At first I didn't agree on the other people on here but now I do see it. No matter what camera you use trying to cram 1080i into 25 Mbits is a tough job. For most things it handles it well but sometimes it falls apart. 720p HDV right now seems to handle things much better. Well at least from what I have seen so far. I have yet to see any major artifacts from any of the 720p footage I have seen. I do think the XLH1 looks great but it still looks like HDV2 video to me. While I am sure the SDI video will look even better it will still have the same overall mood and feeling. I guess I have to decide if that is ok for me or using analog uncompressed from the JVC going to be better for me. For me now at this point it comes down to the certain look I want. I do think I am now leaning back towards the JVC