Why is this forum not part of the HDV acquisition forum?

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Bill Pryor

I will provide consulting services for $100 per hour. Thanks.

You're selling yourself cheaply, Bill!

[Steve Crisdale]

The fact remains that this forum needs to be more logically organised, regardless of the semantics supposedly surrounding the Canon XL H1.

For that matter: I never truly appreciated the way many HD specific subjects have been lumbered under the HDV banner.

For the sake of clarity - of which there is very little at times when HD/HDV is the subject, with more disinformation and sheer gobbly-gook flying around than cream pies at a Three Stooges pie fight... Would it be at all possible to have a Generic HD forum section, where all HD relevant information can be found?

As things stand, and will for some time to come - there are really only two digital video standards that are relevant - SD and HD, so what's the big problem with putting ALL HD stuff under that heading?

[Luis Caffesse]

Just for the record, my "mag wheels with a car on it" was just a late night joke taking the analogy that was presented to it's extreme.

I'm not sure that the situation is completely the same as with the HVX, but your point is well taken Chris. Like I mentioned to someone else the other day, both of these cameras require you to invest in additional equipment to be able to get the most out of them.

Point is, we can call it whatever we want...
An HDV camera, an HD camera head, or even "that thing what takes the pictures".... one thing seems pretty obvious, no matter what we call it this thing should spit out some pretty amazing images. And at the end of the day that's all that matters.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

Doesn't the XLH1 say HDV on the side?

Ah, but that's on the right side... everyone knows it's what's on the left side that *really* counts! Oh but wait, it's on the EVF as well.

HDV is native to this camera. Just like DV and P2 recording are native to the HVX200 and DVCAM is native to the DSR570.

Once again it all boils down to what its buyers will primarily use it for. HDV on this camera is not as big of a selling point as its other features.

I almost get the feeling that Canon thinks HDV sucks which is why they don't want people to feel as though this is a HDV camera.

No, not true, that's actually more of my doing than anything else.

HDV is the native recording format of the H1 so it is HDV.

It certainly is HDV, but it's also more than that.

If the deck could be removed you may have a case but since the deck is built in this is not a camera head but a camcorder.

Are dockable cams even being made anymore? It is a camcorder, but it'll most likely be used as a camera head.

While some users may use it strictly for studio work with SDI great super but it is still a HDV camera that is being used as a camera head.

True, but 1.485Gbps is not "HDV."

So are us users that would use it as a HDV camera stupid for using it that way? Should we not use it to record HDV because it isn't really a HDV camera?

Absolutely not! The H1 will shine as an HDV camcorder, there are some other things going on with the HDV side of this camera that we haven't begun to talk about. And keep in mind that while I'm the one who has been consistently pushing the "not just HDV, but real HD" deal, that's not to take anything away from the HDV format. Remember, it's me... I'm a huge proponent of HDV. You're looking at the biggest and oldest site on the net for HDV. No other web community comes close to the amount of traffic we get for HDV here. We're at well over 30,000 posts in our HDV section now, and it's still our fastest growing area.

If a camera has a native recording format built in you kind of have to call it as that.

It is called that. Actually it's called an "HD Video Camera Recorder" if you look at the markings.

The SONY F900 also has optional SDI ports but nobody calls that a camera head but a HDCAM camera. The Panasonic Varicam has 2 HD-SDI ports built in and it is still a DVCPROHD camera and not a camera head

Because that's how they're used... like I said, it all comes down to who buys it and what do they use it for.

Look, this is a moot topic really... getting back to the original question, why isn't this in the HDV forum, I have already answered that it will be, except the forum category won't be called "HDV" anymore. That's because the category will be the home of the P2 camera as well. It'll be something like "Affordable High Definition" or somesuch and it'll include the HVX200, the XL H1, the Sony and JVC cams as well... so that it doesn't matter if you look at the H1 as "just HDV" or "more than HDV," either way is good. It's all High Def in the long run, and it's more affordable now than it ever has been no matter what camera you choose (although I submit that "affordable" is a highly relative term).

If you ask me, I wish we could build our "Technique" areas up much more than our "Gear" areas anyway. That's where the real education should be, I know I'm never through learning about this stuff.

[Robert Mann Z.]

why not just call it "high definition cameras" (hdv is HD), your "Standard Definition DV Camcorders" doesn't include every camera under sun and nobody had any problems figuring out where to post...

a key dv cameras missing in your sd category was the jvc 500/5000 we use the 500 and that just a standard mini dv tape camera...

also on a more interesting note with the way canon markets the xl h1 we should have a place to discuss how users are using the outputs which sets it apart, if users are using decks or raids i would be very interested in hearing what works best...especially details on decks...

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Steve Crisdale

The fact remains that this forum needs to be more logically organised, regardless of the semantics supposedly surrounding the Canon XL H1.

Bingo! That's just exactly what I'm dealing with right now.

For the sake of clarity - of which there is very little at times when HD/HDV is the subject, with more disinformation and sheer gobbly-gook flying around than cream pies at a Three Stooges pie fight... Would it be at all possible to have a Generic HD forum section, where all HD relevant information can be found?

Absolutely! Just have to figure out what to call it. And I love your Stooges analogy, can I use that sometime?

As things stand, and will for some time to come - there are really only two digital video standards that are relevant - SD and HD, so what's the big problem with putting ALL HD stuff under that heading?

Well, the problem has more to do with the forum index layout than anything else. We've just about reached "sprawling" status. How to better condense the main forum index page and still show all the boards is the real challenge. Where the SD cameras are right now, those might go down to subforum status... just thinking out loud... it's a bit of a headache honestly.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Robert Mann Z.

a key dv cameras missing in your sd category was the jvc 500/5000 we use the 500 and that just a standard mini dv tape camera...

The are two reasons why I never did that. My buddy Mike Martin has a popular 500/5000 forum on his site at http://fastforwardclub.com/v-web/bulletin/bb/index.php? and I didn't want to compete with him. Besides, I couldn't get anybody interested in moderating a general "big camera" board for us back then.

There's been enough recent interest and also a couple of volunteers that will enable us to revisit this topic soon, though, so anything can still happen.

[Bill Pryor]

I think putting all the 1/3" chip HD/HDV camcorders into an "affordable HD" section is great. That's what they are.

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

...just thinking out loud... it's a bit of a headache honestly.

I figure it isn't the easiest thing in the World to do, and I don't envy the effort you're obviously putting in too get everything as organised as is possible.

I do know that I appreciate your efforts, and thank you for the efforts you've already made in creating the most erudite and comprehensive of the forums dealing with digital video.

Bwhoo, bwhoo, bwhoo, bwhoo...

I've just checked with my agent Larry, who conferred with my lawyer Moe, who in turn consulted my publicist Curly; that you can use any line of my text as you wish, as long as I can reserve the right to hold my hand up between my eyes to prevent the ole two finger eye poke...

[Chris Hurd]

As promised, this board is now part of our "affordable HD / HDV Acquisition" category:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=61

Hope this helps,

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

As promised, this board is now part of our "affordable HD / HDV Acquisition" category:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=61

Hope this helps,

I think it gives the forum main page a lean and buff appearance...

Thanks again for your efforts Chris!!!

[Chris Hurd]

Well, not all that lean, as the main forum index page now seems to scroll on forever...

[Steve Crisdale]

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Well, not all that lean, as the main forum index page now seems to scroll on forever...

Neither is George Forman all that lean...

It may be a bit of a scroll, but at least everything now seems to fit into a logically associated category!!

Maybe that can change once everyone's familiar with where their SD camera (for instance)is to be found... or (as an example) where their HDV editing question should be posted .