Canon XLH1 does uncompressed 1080i 4:2:2 over HD-SDI

Jacques Mersereau · September 16th, 2005, 07:25 AM

Thanks for the link.

Charles Wood · September 18th, 2005, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

Do you mean to capture uncompressed HD!!! At 1.5Gb/s! That would take a serious RAID array, especially with 2.5" drives. That is about 35 times faster that the fastest current Firestore!

If the output was compressed to say a 50Mb/s codec first, that would work.

Two points on this compression issue: 1) if you are putting the SDI to a hard disk, why stick to the data rates imposed by a tape transport? Why not let the rate rise as required to maintain a picture quality level? There would be a certain rate at which MPEG2 would be fine, even for blue screen work and this would be way, way below the raw SDI stream data rate. HDV style compression at 100mBS would look perfect in almost all circumstances...and that would steream to a SATA2 drive...no problem.

2) for blue screen why no go one step further and extract and compress the KEY on the fly and store it as an alpha channel, say a 250 level grey scale using LZW compression, then one could compress the actual image data further without damaging the key as a seperate data stream.

Either way we should start thinking outside the box: Canon have kindly presented us with a great, pre-conformed SDI stream...lets make good use of it!! We just have to take that data and make different decisions to those forced on us by the HDV standard...one that suites OUR needs.

The electronics for decoding SDI is off-the-shelf, just look at cards available for computer systems..they are cheap.

Betsy Moore · September 28th, 2005, 10:57 PM

I know the cool kids aren't supposed to stoop to using things like this but dammit I haven't had to do without a flip-out screen for 10 or 15 years, I love the range of camera placement you can get from it that you can't get when the eyepiece is chained to your head. Plus I have a glidecam and... ugh... how do you Xl1 veterans do it?

Chris Hurd · September 29th, 2005, 12:19 AM

Betsy, I've talked to several companies that import those little LCD monitors that you can put on top of a camera. I asked for a Canon XL version of something like a 4" screen, native 16:9, on a rotating slide rail that would slip onto the EVF mounting channel on the camera body. So far no dice. I bet it would sell like crazy.

Kevin Dooley · September 29th, 2005, 06:26 AM

I found a company that sells a mount for the EVF rail... I'll look for it and see if I can't find it again...

Chris Hurd · September 29th, 2005, 06:28 AM

Yes please, do tell! I'd love to find out who that is!

Kevin Dooley · September 29th, 2005, 06:48 AM

It actually took a little looking in some other DVInfo forums for me to find out who it was... It's a company that specializes in LCD monitors, specifically 2.35/2.4:1 and 16:9 LCDs... Anyways, if you look here, you'll notice that the monitor is mounted on the XL1 where the EVF goes... I emailed them at one time and I think it was around $100-$150 for this mount by it's lonesome... of course then you need and LCD that fits the multipin connector on the XL series cams... maybe with a diagram of the pins and someone whos good with soldering you could get something that would work... Or maybe this company sells something, I dunno...

Betsy Moore · September 29th, 2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks as always Chris and Kevin, nothing's simple in this life, is it? My main worry is that 24F thing. In the past none of those frame modes has been as good as the cameramaker's claimed; let's hope this is the first exception.

Steve Connor · September 29th, 2005, 11:58 AM

How about a Playstation Portable as an external monitor, it's a great screen, can it accept video in?

Robert Niemann · October 6th, 2005, 06:00 PM

Why does the Canon XL H1 not uncompressed 1080i 4:4:4 over HD-SDI?

Stephen L. Noe · October 6th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Niemann

Why does the Canon XL H1 not uncompressed 1080i 4:4:4 over HD-SDI?

That is a dynamite question. Why doesn't it? Circuitry limitation?

David Newman · October 6th, 2005, 10:40 PM

4:4:4 requires dual link HDSDI. Single HDSDI feed doesn't have enough bandwidth to support 4:4:4.

Stephen L. Noe · October 6th, 2005, 11:33 PM

David, When you said dual link SDI it hit me like a ton of bricks. That's what Liquid Chrome Editors have been asking for. I didn't make the connection because I've only worked in 422. Thanks for the reminder..

Dan Uneken · October 12th, 2005, 08:48 AM

the "Introduction" link on
http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/watchdog.php
is broken.

Martin von Will · October 16th, 2005, 02:14 AM

Is the HD-SDI output 8bit, 10 bit or 12 bit 4:2:2 ?

September 16th, 2005, 07:25 AM	#31
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	Thanks for the link. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

September 29th, 2005, 12:19 AM	#34
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Betsy, I've talked to several companies that import those little LCD monitors that you can put on top of a camera. I asked for a Canon XL version of something like a 4" screen, native 16:9, on a rotating slide rail that would slip onto the EVF mounting channel on the camera body. So far no dice. I bet it would sell like crazy. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 29th, 2005, 06:26 AM	#35
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	I found a company that sells a mount for the EVF rail... I'll look for it and see if I can't find it again... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

September 29th, 2005, 06:28 AM	#36
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Yes please, do tell! I'd love to find out who that is! __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 29th, 2005, 06:48 AM	#37
Kevin Dooley Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fort Worth, TX Posts: 414	It actually took a little looking in some other DVInfo forums for me to find out who it was... It's a company that specializes in LCD monitors, specifically 2.35/2.4:1 and 16:9 LCDs... Anyways, if you look here, you'll notice that the monitor is mounted on the XL1 where the EVF goes... I emailed them at one time and I think it was around $100-$150 for this mount by it's lonesome... of course then you need and LCD that fits the multipin connector on the XL series cams... maybe with a diagram of the pins and someone whos good with soldering you could get something that would work... Or maybe this company sells something, I dunno... __________________ Kevin Dooley Media Director, Pantego Bible Church

September 28th, 2005, 10:57 PM	#33
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	I know the cool kids aren't supposed to stoop to using things like this but dammit I haven't had to do without a flip-out screen for 10 or 15 years, I love the range of camera placement you can get from it that you can't get when the eyepiece is chained to your head. Plus I have a glidecam and... ugh... how do you Xl1 veterans do it?

September 29th, 2005, 11:18 AM	#38
Betsy Moore Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 444	Thanks as always Chris and Kevin, nothing's simple in this life, is it? My main worry is that 24F thing. In the past none of those frame modes has been as good as the cameramaker's claimed; let's hope this is the first exception.

September 29th, 2005, 11:58 AM	#39
Steve Connor Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK Posts: 383	How about a Playstation Portable as an external monitor, it's a great screen, can it accept video in?

October 6th, 2005, 06:00 PM	#40
Robert Niemann Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Posts: 109	Why does the Canon XL H1 not uncompressed 1080i 4:4:4 over HD-SDI?

October 6th, 2005, 10:40 PM	#42
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	4:4:4 requires dual link HDSDI. Single HDSDI feed doesn't have enough bandwidth to support 4:4:4. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

October 6th, 2005, 11:33 PM	#43
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	David, When you said dual link SDI it hit me like a ton of bricks. That's what Liquid Chrome Editors have been asking for. I didn't make the connection because I've only worked in 422. Thanks for the reminder..

October 12th, 2005, 08:48 AM	#44
Dan Uneken Major Player Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Andalucia, Spain Posts: 301	Broken link the "Introduction" link on http://www.dvinfo.net/canonxlh1/watchdog.php is broken. __________________ Film & TV locations & production Spain http://www.fotofilmvideo.com/

October 16th, 2005, 02:14 AM	#45
Martin von Will Tourist Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 2	Is the HD-SDI output 8bit, 10 bit or 12 bit 4:2:2 ?