New XL HDV shown at IBC

Christopher C. Murphy · September 13th, 2005, 09:43 PM

It looks offical...no 24p on Canon's new HDV. How weird is that? Their previous model has 24p! Granted it's SD, but it's damn nice image for a lot less money.

If I were going to buy a Canon...I'd actually think about getting their XL2 now. It'll be cheaper and it does 24p for film outs...sounds like a bargain camera to me. This newer Canon HDV is up against still compeditors that are cheaper!

Pete Bauer · September 13th, 2005, 10:18 PM

Christopher, are you privy to a verified source that nobody else has reported as yet? I'm certainly hopeful for an HD camera announcement at Canon Expo in the coming days, but so far am unaware of any substantiated information about the capabilities of their next camera.

If you have an official source, please link it or tell us where to find it. Thanks!

Christopher C. Murphy · September 14th, 2005, 04:37 AM

I don't like linking to other sites, but here is where I found the information.

"....will not have a 24 frames progressive scan mode"
http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...-Camcorder.htm

Peter Wiley · September 14th, 2005, 04:53 AM

Have a look at this blog on the speech yesterday by Fujio Mitarai, President and CEO of Canon.

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...po-Keynote.htm

and possible reference to more than one camera.

Apparently the announcement is going to come today, the 14th, at 10:30AM. I am eating my words on that photo . . .

Pete Bauer · September 14th, 2005, 05:54 AM

Christopher and Peter,

Agree that we don't want to make a habit of going to other web sites -- some of which may have a reputation for, shall we say, speculative reporting -- as we look for the hot news, but considering the buzz about Canon lately, verfying the source of the latest rumors and reports are most appreciated. Thanks.

Happily, we can stay right here at DVinfo for all the latest rock-solid information on Canon's new camera. As of today DVinfo "Kennelmaster" Chris Hurd has established a new forum just for Canon's new HD camera:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=101

I'm going to look in that forum to see what's new and true about Canon's new camera, like whether there's no NATIVE 24p, or no 24p at all (I'm sure we are all hoping for the former, not the latter). If you need me, that's where I'll be. C'mon over everyone!

Elie Zakaria · September 15th, 2005, 11:48 AM

Uhmm...

Here is the offical press release just in case you missed it, following this thread I saw no mention of it so I decided to post it :-)

http://opd.usa.canon.com/templatedat...0914_xlh1.html

Also here is a pic!!

The hi res shot is here...
http://opd.usa.canon.com/templatedat...hiRes_XLH1.jpg

Looks interesting :)

Peter Moore · September 15th, 2005, 11:56 AM

Great, same crap as with the Z1 - it has some kind of "24 frame mode" but what does this mean? Will they botch it like CF24 with the Sony? If the CCDs cannot capture progressively, there is no way to make 24p without blending fields, and that means resolution loss.

Canon, WHY OH WHY? You had an almost perfect camera! Why did you botch it?

Michael Maier · September 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM

That's my question too. If it blends fields to make a frame, how is it possible to be as good as real progressive? Fields are not captured at the same time. To me, it seems like while progressive is like a solid digital still, this method would be like taking a still from a video stream, or a video still. I still can't see it.
Besides, in this day and age, going back to some sort of frame movie mode just seems like a step backwards. Maybe after the XL-H1S, Canon will make a XL-H2 with real progressive.
I hope sample footage will come soon.

Peter Moore · September 15th, 2005, 12:31 PM

Right, it probably will be comparable to the Frame Mode of the XL1 and GL1-2. Which, incidentally, isn't terrible. Their field blending algorithm is actually quite good as compared with most any other method of making 60i->24p. But still, why not just capture at freakin 1080p?

Damon Botsford · September 15th, 2005, 01:32 PM

I could be very mistaken, but doesn't the Sony F900 get progressive from interlaced fields? 24psf... something like that. Good enough for Lucas... good enough for me.

We might be suprised by this new camera.

James Emory · September 15th, 2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elie Zakaria

Uhmm...

Here is the offical press release just in case you missed it, following this thread I saw no mention of it so I decided to post it :-)

http://www.opd.usa.canon.com/templat...0914_xlh1.html

Thanks for posting that informative page. I actually know what the hell is going on with the features now. I am not able to save the H1 images to my PC though. I can copy the image files but they don't display once on my machine.

Mike Marriage · September 15th, 2005, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Botsford

Good enough for Lucas... good enough for me.

I hope you don't say the same about scripts and performances! :)

Damon Botsford · September 15th, 2005, 02:02 PM

Nooooooooo way, Mike!!!!!!! Talking purely technical.

Jimmy Smits??? gimme a break... and that Hayden Christianson couldn't act his way out of a paper bag!

Bill Porter · September 15th, 2005, 03:45 PM

Re: looks like a spray painted XL-2

If true, hey, at least it was spray. There would have been brush or roller marks if they did it the other way, and them'd have to be sanded off.

;-)

Kevin Calumpit · September 15th, 2005, 04:30 PM

Here this cant get any more official than Canon's very own site

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...&modelid=12152

then if you click on the "HDV recording" it tells you what it can record
it says 24F and 30F and 60i which im guessing the 24F isnt really 24P
only time will tell if it looks good or not.

September 13th, 2005, 09:43 PM	#106
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	It looks offical...no 24p on Canon's new HDV. How weird is that? Their previous model has 24p! Granted it's SD, but it's damn nice image for a lot less money. If I were going to buy a Canon...I'd actually think about getting their XL2 now. It'll be cheaper and it does 24p for film outs...sounds like a bargain camera to me. This newer Canon HDV is up against still compeditors that are cheaper! __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

September 13th, 2005, 10:18 PM	#107
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Christopher, are you privy to a verified source that nobody else has reported as yet? I'm certainly hopeful for an HD camera announcement at Canon Expo in the coming days, but so far am unaware of any substantiated information about the capabilities of their next camera. If you have an official source, please link it or tell us where to find it. Thanks! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

September 14th, 2005, 04:37 AM	#108
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	I don't like linking to other sites, but here is where I found the information. "....will not have a 24 frames progressive scan mode" http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...-Camcorder.htm __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

September 14th, 2005, 05:54 AM	#110
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Christopher and Peter, Agree that we don't want to make a habit of going to other web sites -- some of which may have a reputation for, shall we say, speculative reporting -- as we look for the hot news, but considering the buzz about Canon lately, verfying the source of the latest rumors and reports are most appreciated. Thanks. Happily, we can stay right here at DVinfo for all the latest rock-solid information on Canon's new camera. As of today DVinfo "Kennelmaster" Chris Hurd has established a new forum just for Canon's new HD camera: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=101 I'm going to look in that forum to see what's new and true about Canon's new camera, like whether there's no NATIVE 24p, or no 24p at all (I'm sure we are all hoping for the former, not the latter). If you need me, that's where I'll be. C'mon over everyone! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

September 14th, 2005, 04:53 AM	#109
Peter Wiley Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lewisburg PA Posts: 752	Have a look at this blog on the speech yesterday by Fujio Mitarai, President and CEO of Canon. http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content...po-Keynote.htm and possible reference to more than one camera. Apparently the announcement is going to come today, the 14th, at 10:30AM. I am eating my words on that photo . . .

September 15th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#111
Elie Zakaria Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 38	Uhmm... Here is the offical press release just in case you missed it, following this thread I saw no mention of it so I decided to post it :-) http://opd.usa.canon.com/templatedat...0914_xlh1.html Also here is a pic!! The hi res shot is here... http://opd.usa.canon.com/templatedat...hiRes_XLH1.jpg Looks interesting :)

September 15th, 2005, 11:56 AM	#112
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Great, same crap as with the Z1 - it has some kind of "24 frame mode" but what does this mean? Will they botch it like CF24 with the Sony? If the CCDs cannot capture progressively, there is no way to make 24p without blending fields, and that means resolution loss. Canon, WHY OH WHY? You had an almost perfect camera! Why did you botch it?

September 15th, 2005, 12:16 PM	#113
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	That's my question too. If it blends fields to make a frame, how is it possible to be as good as real progressive? Fields are not captured at the same time. To me, it seems like while progressive is like a solid digital still, this method would be like taking a still from a video stream, or a video still. I still can't see it. Besides, in this day and age, going back to some sort of frame movie mode just seems like a step backwards. Maybe after the XL-H1S, Canon will make a XL-H2 with real progressive. I hope sample footage will come soon.

September 15th, 2005, 12:31 PM	#114
Peter Moore Trustee Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Arlington VA Posts: 1,034	Right, it probably will be comparable to the Frame Mode of the XL1 and GL1-2. Which, incidentally, isn't terrible. Their field blending algorithm is actually quite good as compared with most any other method of making 60i->24p. But still, why not just capture at freakin 1080p?

September 15th, 2005, 01:32 PM	#115
Damon Botsford Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 39	I could be very mistaken, but doesn't the Sony F900 get progressive from interlaced fields? 24psf... something like that. Good enough for Lucas... good enough for me. We might be suprised by this new camera.

September 15th, 2005, 02:02 PM	#118
Damon Botsford Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks, CA Posts: 39	Nooooooooo way, Mike!!!!!!! Talking purely technical. Jimmy Smits??? gimme a break... and that Hayden Christianson couldn't act his way out of a paper bag!

September 15th, 2005, 03:45 PM	#119
Bill Porter Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ventura, California, USA Posts: 751	Re: looks like a spray painted XL-2 If true, hey, at least it was spray. There would have been brush or roller marks if they did it the other way, and them'd have to be sanded off. ;-)

September 15th, 2005, 04:30 PM	#120
Kevin Calumpit Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: San Marcos, CALIFORNIA Posts: 103	Here this cant get any more official than Canon's very own site http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...&modelid=12152 then if you click on the "HDV recording" it tells you what it can record it says 24F and 30F and 60i which im guessing the 24F isnt really 24P only time will tell if it looks good or not.