New XL HDV shown at IBC

[Lars Steenhoff]

Thanks to dvinfo.net Chris Hurd for letting me upload to the gallery, I will post more images in there.

And I completly support the sceptiscism of the forum. without it there would be too many rumors based on nothing.

Now we have to wait for more info from Canon about the specs.

[Tim Brechlin]

I have to believe the rumors are false, simply because Canon couldn't possibly be so stupid as to launch a relative turd in the face of JVC and Panasonic.

[Pete Bauer]

Hey Tim, you said in one line of text what it took me about a dozen posts over three or four related threads to say! What you may lack in refined eloquence, you more than make up for in brute clarity!
;-)
Now, bring on Canon Expo!

[Steve Nunez]

I've read several posts indicating the use of current XL lenses couldn't resolve enough detail or resolution to be used in an HDV cam. I know that when using the EF adapter and using EOS lenses the camera sharpens up nicely and since the resolution of Canon's DSLR's are up to 16MP- I think we don't need to worry about the resolving power of a lens they mate to their upcoming HDV camera- if it is in fact XL based.

I for one wouldn't mind at all if they released a simple HDV version of their XL cam with 720p or 1080i with a slight increase in price ($4000??) with interchangeable lenses- imagine the telephoto/macro possibilities (nature) and shooting HDV.....would be great!

[Tim Brechlin]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

Hey Tim, you said in one line of text what it took me about a dozen posts over three or four related threads to say! What you may lack in refined eloquence, you more than make up for in brute clarity!

What can I say, Pete...raised in Chicago and making my name in the redneck plantation of Iowa. We like to call 'dem thing as we see 'dem 'round these here parts.

[John DeLuca]

Canon really let me down with the HDV format. If the Pana has a decent lux rating, 35mm adaptor, and a DTE disk, I can't see why anyone would be in the market for the canon HDV. Only time will tell the final outcome.


John

[Greg Boston]

Originally Posted by John DeLuca

Canon really let me down with the HDV format. If the Pana has a decent lux rating, 35mm adaptor, and a DTE disk, I can't see why anyone would be in the market for the canon HDV. Only time will tell the final outcome.

John

How can they have let you down? They haven't announced anything yet. You should wait until any new camera is 'officially announced' with all the specs known before being let down.

=gb=

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by John DeLuca

If the Pana has a decent lux rating, 35mm adaptor, and a DTE disk, I can't see why anyone would be in the market for the canon HDV. Only time will tell the final outcome.
John

How about "unlimited" quality glass possibilities with adaptors for PL and the most popular lens mounts in the industry?
How about the possibility of using a mini35 mounted directly to the XL lens mount, rather than having it going through sections and sections of prosumer glass?
How about a shoulder form factor for easier and more stable handheld shots? Specially if compared to the bulky HVX, which seems to be a brick block type of size and shape, this is very useful.
How about the possibility of using a high-resolution viewfinder or even a real HD viewfinder if you so want?
How about people who needs a more professional look camera for their clients, like wedding videographers? The average Joe could have an easier time seeing a XL type of camera, as a professional HD camera for which he's most likely paying HD prices, than a handheld prosumer looking camera.
How about freedom to shot without being dependent on a laptop to unload your P2 or 90 min. Firestore?
How about real focus and iris rings for real manual control?

Could you see now why somebody would be on the market for a Canon HDV?
Nothing against the HVX200, specially given it's not even out yet. But it sure won't be the end all cameras. It will have compromises as any other product. No camera is perfect. You just need to choose the one which is right for you. I can see the point on being upset if the new Canon has no 24p or even the projection that it will not sell very well, if it doesn't offer what the HD100 does, since they are somehow similar. But criticizing the camera for it being HDV is really pointless. HDV is just another option. If it isn't for you, just buy something else. But putting it down is really pointless.

[Ivan Hurtado]

Michael, mind you could be speaking about the JVC too... And JVC will be cheaper with just those differences about Progressive and 1080.

But it´s true, it´s not out yet so we should wait and then argue about them... Three days!

[Kevin Wild]

Michael, your points are valid, but you have to understand that many people including myself were hoping that Canon was going to do something truly "revolutionary." Am I disappointed if come Wednesday it's only HDV? Yes, I will be. Will it be a great, if not best-on-the-market HDV camera? Probably...I would love it for all of the reasons you listed.

That said, it's still HDV rather than a non-MPG2 format. For the past 3 months I was looking forward to buying the Panny. Then, I was surprised to hear Canon might announce a new HD "professional" camera. I was one really hoping that it would be a competitor to the HVX200. Unfortunately, it looks like Panasonic will be on an island at their price and quality point, with all the HDV stuff (JVC, SONY and Canon) below it.

It's making the decision for me which to buy even more difficult. I'd love to be tape based. I'd love to have DVC ProHD. I'd love a shoulder mount. I'd love to have Canon lenses. I'd love 2/3" chips. I'd love to spend less than $10k. Sigh...I guess I'll keep dreaming!

We'll see in a few days the details, but it looks like it's HDV from Canon. One thing nobody has brought up is the GL3, which may be announced, too. They're overdue for that and now THAT will be a nice camera for non-professional use, just like the incredible GL1 has been for me the past 4 years.

Kevin

PS-Hey, Canon: It'd better have 24p or the decision of which camera to buy is easy for me!

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Ivan Hurtado

Michael, mind you could be speaking about the JVC too... And JVC will be cheaper with just those differences about Progressive and 1080.

You lost me here.

[John DeLuca]

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

How about "unlimited" quality glass possibilities with adaptors for PL and the most popular lens mounts in the industry?
How about the possibility of using a mini35 mounted directly to the XL lens mount, rather than having it going through sections and sections of prosumer glass?
How about a shoulder form factor for easier and more stable handheld shots? Specially if compared to the bulky HVX, which seems to be a brick block type of size and shape, this is very useful.
How about the possibility of using a high-resolution viewfinder or even a real HD viewfinder if you so want?
How about people who needs a more professional look camera for their clients, like wedding videographers? The average Joe could have an easier time seeing a XL type of camera, as a professional HD camera for which he's most likely paying HD prices, than a handheld prosumer looking camera.
How about freedom to shot without being dependent on a laptop to unload your P2 or 90 min. Firestore?
How about real focus and iris rings for real manual control?

Could you see now why somebody would be on the market for a Canon HDV?
Nothing against the HVX200, specially given it's not even out yet. But it sure won't be the end all cameras. It will have compromises as any other product. No camera is perfect. You just need to choose the one which is right for you. I can see the point on being upset if the new Canon has no 24p or even the projection that it will not sell very well, if it doesn't offer what the HD100 does, since they are somehow similar. But criticizing the camera for it being HDV is really pointless. HDV is just another option. If it isn't for you, just buy something else. But putting it down is really pointless.

About the last few sentences. Whoa.....I wouldn't call it criticism. More like an opinion. Maybe it was the picture of the black XL2 with the letters HDV on it that did it.....who knows ;-). Like I said, only time will tell.

John

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

Michael, your points are valid, but you have to understand that many people including myself were hoping that Canon was going to do something truly "revolutionary." Am I disappointed if come Wednesday it's only HDV? Yes, I will be.

Only HDV? What else would you expect? HDCAM-SR?

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

That said, it's still HDV rather than a non-MPG2 format.

Such as?

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

For the past 3 months I was looking forward to buying the Panny. Then, I was surprised to hear Canon might announce a new HD "professional" camera. I was one really hoping that it would be a competitor to the HVX200.

And it will be, just like the HD100 and even Z1.

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

Unfortunately, it looks like Panasonic will be on an island at their price and quality point, with all the HDV stuff (JVC, SONY and Canon) below it.

Bellow it? From which point of view? Optics? Ergonomics? Resolution? Color space? Image control? You do realize bellow or above in this case is subjective, right?

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

It's making the decision for me which to buy even more difficult. I'd love to be tape based.

HD tape based in this price point is impossible, unless suing some type of compression, like the HDV format does. Why do you think the HVX200 records to memory?

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

I'd love to have DVC ProHD.

On tape, for under $10,000 or possibly even under $30,000? Impossible on this day and age.

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

I'd love a shoulder mount. I'd love to have Canon lenses. I'd love 2/3" chips. I'd love to spend less than $10k. Sigh...I guess I'll keep dreaming!

Oh yes, you are sure dreaming. I’m sorry, but that’s the truth.
Before making a request list, it’s wise to understand a little about the market realities.
Maybe in a couple of years, it will be possible to have a HD 2/3” professional shoulder camera with a non MPEG2 compression for under 10k. But for now, to dream about such thing is setting yourself up for disappointment.
Any and all HD cameras which come for under 10k now, will be full of compromises. You just need to pick the ones which you can better live with, or the camera which better suits you.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Michael, probably I shouldn't be answering for Kevin, as I don't know him or his intentions, but I think he knows the market limitations very well, that's why he said and realised those whiches were dreaming.
I think he maybe ment (or that's my conclusion out of it) that if Canon waited this long, they could bring SOMETHING on the table that the others didn't have, or have some very good feature or price point.
But - and only IF, IF, IF the not-officially announced information is true, which I doubt - else, Canon is offering too little for their price, and they have nothing the others don't really have, like they did have with the XL1 (that was a pretty revolutionary cam at the time, wasn't it?)

Well, I think it's best for me to shut up now, and let Kevin respond to it, because he'll know better then I do what he meant with what he said.

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

Michael, probably I shouldn't be answering for Kevin, as I don't know him or his intentions, but I think he knows the market limitations very well, that's why he said and realised those whiches were dreaming.
I think he maybe ment (or that's my conclusion out of it) that if Canon waited this long, they could bring SOMETHING on the table that the others didn't have, or have some very good feature or price point.

1. How do we know they didn't at this point?
2. What else could they have done which wasn't HDV based, since this seemed to be the main complain from Kevin.

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

But - and only IF, IF, IF the not-officially announced information is true, which I doubt - else, Canon is offering too little for their price, and they have nothing the others don't really have...

10k for a Canon 1/3"! HDV camera with 1080i only? That's sure bogus. Unless it will be a 2/3" camera ala the new JVC HD7000 and they found a way to fit it all in the XL body, or the XL body was just a decoy. See, we just don't know yet. We only know it will be HDV. That was basically what I addressed in Kevin's post. The HDV complain.