New XL HDV shown at IBC

[Pete Bauer]

Thanks to new members Lars and Matt for providing the higher rez pictures, and to "Major Player" Mikko also for the early confirmation that this mockup was actually at IBC. And Lars, my apologies if I offended you with my initial skepticism...everyone at DVinfo works hard to keep things factual and on-topic and at first this really just seemed, well, not for real. But it appears now that you actually were among the first, if not the very first, on the internet to report the IBC XL HDV mockup, so that deserves big congratulations. Glad you made your way here to DVinfo and look forward to many lively discussions with you.

Since the mockup actually exists, many of us are now really wondering if perhaps it is Canon's Public Relations department that is pulling the trick. Considering that Canon seems to be positioning itself to enter the pro video market (recently realigned their web site: CanonUSA Camcorders), I certainly agree with others that a plain interlaced HDV XL without other substantial features would be a flop, and Canon cannot possibly fail to know that. Add to that the fact that Canon is apparently saying NOTHING at IBC, and it starts to smell like they're deliberately trying to generate "buzz"...hyped speculation. And that's exactly what we all are doing. So if that's their plan, it's working! Canon Expo has seemed like the logical place for an announcement, and this makes it seem nearly a certainty. No idea if it'll actually look like the mockup, or if that is just a total trick.

And to those slamming Canon in advance for announcing an HD XL, I have to respectfully disagree. You bought the best miniDV camera, and your XL2 will still be the best miniDV camera around. It won't depreciate to zero the day an HD camera is announced. In fact, I think used XL2's will be sought after by those who are sticking with SD for another year or two or three. So if you're not enjoying it or making money with it, sell it. But if you want to shoot HD, it is just reality that you're going to have to pay the premium for that. I'd anticipate that the new WunderKam is going to cost a good bit more than an XL2 does...probably more along the lines of a tricked out HVX200. There's nothing wrong with Canon competing in a new market space; in fact, a lot of us can hardly wait. I knew when I bought my XL2 that I'd be going to HD within a year or so, but I bought it anyway -- same as everyone else who bought one.

I'll bet that in just a few days we will be adding solid facts on a new WunderKam to this thread. If, in the unlikely event, that Canon has been totally asleep at the wheel the last couple of years, and the company announces a ho-hum HDV camera at too high a price point, then I'll be disappointed. Today is too soon to be disappointed.

[Anhar Miah]

I don't know if this has been said before, but would It not be wise if Canon offered some kind of upgrade to XL2 customers, say for example that XL2 customers hand in their cameras and Canon just replace the internal electronics(I suppose then you would still have the problem of the SD lens, perhaps some kind of "basic" HD lens at discounted rates for XL2 owners?)

Anhar Hussain Miah

[Glenn Gipson]

I gotta chime in here and say that these camcorder.info specs are either:

A. Totally bogus.

B. Demonstrate that the people at Canon have gone totally mad.

I'm betting on A.

[Pete Bauer]

Anhar,
Yeah, I'd always hoped I could just swap out the camera body and continue to use my existing lenses. But a number of people who seem pretty knowledgeable about optics have indicated that the lenses now available just won't have the resolving power to do HD justice. So it may be that both camera and lenses will need to be new in order to really do HD right.

Glenn,
I vote "A" also.

Let's hope the wait for some real info is only a couple more days!

[Gary McClurg]

I vote for "A".

i can't be positive but I read once that camcorder.info is wrong 7 out of 10 times.

Plus, If I wanted to think as a business man. What better way to take the wind out of another companies sails (or sells), than to plant false information.

What I'm seeing on the net. There is as much interest in the Canon as the new Panny.

[Boyd Ostroff]

Originally Posted by Gary McClurg

If I wanted to think as a business man

If you really want to think like a business man then just wait a few more days and see what Canon really announces.... ;-)

[Richard Alvarez]

Okay, I've been looking at the pics and reading the wild rumors... so I'll officially stick my neck out at this point. I think the "BlackCam" is a decoy. And I don't think whatever they announce will be a simple HDV model.

The clock is ticking.


And speaking as one who bought an Xl2 at a premium price in November last year. If the new cam is simply HDV... then I think my money was well spent, as I intend to skip over HDV for the next "HD prosumer" format. IF the cam is HD in some fashion, then I'll weigh in on trading in my Xl2 in a year. It's already paid for itself.

[Michael Maier]

Originally Posted by Anhar Miah

I don't know if this has been said before, but would It not be wise if Canon offered some kind of upgrade to XL2 customers, say for example that XL2 customers hand in their cameras and Canon just replace the internal electronics(I suppose then you would still have the problem of the SD lens, perhaps some kind of "basic" HD lens at discounted rates for XL2 owners?)

Anhar Hussain Miah

Sorry, but that's not going to happen. It's more complicated than that. They can't just swap electronics like that.

[Ash Greyson]

I still think that is a dummy camera. I am not a fanboy for any manufacturer so the one with the best product/price/features gets my business. I currenly own an XL2 and an DVX100a, I use both daily. Just do the math and the info doesnt add up... right now an XL2 has a street price of around $3600. Would you pay THREE TIMES THAT just to ONLY be able to shoot in 1080i? Nobody would. I would rather shoot in 24P SD and have it blown up. For it to be $10-$12k it would have to be a 2/3" CCD camera and I dont think you can fit all that in the XL2 body.

Also, do you think Canon would release a camera that is DOUBLE the price of its HIGHEST priced competitor in the 1/3" CCD class that lacked features?

The only other possible explanation is that there will be some sort of native HD and maybe 60 minutes of flash media is IN the camera or included. That wouldnt make sense to me either.

Whatever the case, I highly doubt the info out is correct and if it is, Canon may not make their R&D back...



ash =o)

[David Slingerland]

I saw the camera at IBC. It is a mock up model, made out of wood. The sales people were told to say absolutly nothing about the camera. He did tell me that they were not going to ax the xl2 straight away. He would not tell me anything about when the camera would be ready. My feeling is there is no camera yet but because everybody is doing HD they had to come with something to the IBC. They usually do not show any camera at ibc. Its the canon lenses they show here. Now they had two camera's (xl2) and the mock up.I have some photo's I will load up later

[Jay Gladwell]

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

And speaking as one who bought an Xl2 at a premium price in November last year. If the new cam is simply HDV... then I think my money was well spent, as I intend to skip over HDV for the next "HD prosumer" format.

I'm with you up to this point, Richard.

Frankly, the jump to $10-$12K is too much, because it won't stop there. You're looking at another $15K to upgrade your post facility to HD. I'm not going broke, but I don't have another $25K laying around, either.

For me, my business is still client driven. So far, no one has asked that their project be produced in HD.

I got sucked into an upgrade this past Spring on a video product, and it wasn't a smart move because the product wasn't ready for prime-time. Luckily, I got my money back. So no more consumer frenzy spending for me.

Beware of lemmings!

Jay

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

Originally Posted by Ash Greyson

For it to be $10-$12k it would have to be a 2/3" CCD camera and I dont think you can fit all that in the XL2 body.

It would be nice though ;-)

I am very curious about Canon's move, they have hard competition with JVC already offering interchangible lens system and Panasonic with the specs of the HVX.
I hope they can offer something nice, though.

[Meryem Ersoz]

i have two project deadlines this month. i better use my HVX200 to get the job done. oh right, i don't own one yet because it's still just a twinkle in panasonic's eye. when i finish them, i will burn them to a Blu-Ray disc. oh, i forgot, that delivery system hasn't been invented yet and is at least a year away.

canon is far from late to this party...and my xl2 is more than up to the jobs.

i think the whole spray-painted-camera-in-a-box is just a little joke from canon that got sort of out of hand, due to the world wide web factor and all of the anxiety out here about whether we plunked our money down on the wrong thing or the right thing.

it is *not* an easy time to make choices about these purchases, period. and those times are actually the most exciting times in any technological revolution.

ask me how much money i've dumped into new computers and upgraded software since 1985. so, why do we expect to buy one camera that is the be all/end all?

[Kevin Wild]

You guys are funny. "Fakes" and "jokes by Canon." I don't even get what people are thinking. Hmm...let's put out a "lesser model fake" to get everyone pissed off at us...than we'll win 'em all back in a week when we announce the real deal! Come on...

Man, I'm glad none of you are the heads of marketing departments.

Let's hope it's not 1080i only. I'll be disappointed with just HDV, BUT if it is 1080-24p, it could be a very, very good camera. Without the 24p, I think it's a deal killer and I'll go with the Panny...and keep my XL2.

Kevin

[Philip Williams]

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

You guys are funny. "Fakes" and "jokes by Canon." I don't even get what people are thinking. Hmm...let's put out a "lesser model fake" to get everyone pissed off at us...than we'll win 'em all back in a week when we announce the real deal! Come on...<snip>

While I think Canon is doing some consumer manipulation and marketing with this HDV XL, I certainly agree that I wouldn't expect it to be any kind of joke or fake. No, I think this thing is generating quite a bit of buz and easy publicity, which is great considering how little it probably cost to get that mockup into the glass case. The big questions aren't if its real or not of course, but how much and what features? Who knows, maybe it'll land at $5,500 and beat the Z1 at its own 1080i game? Or it could come in at $6500 with 1080 24P and make some potential HVX buyers rethink the DVCPROHD/P2/Laptop/Firestore VS HDV/$5 Tape advantages.

Whatever the case, the more I think about it, I believe this Canon will be at least somewhat competitive within its feature/price point. Might it only be 1080i? Sure. Will it cost $10,000 then? No way.

Of course for me personally, the bigest disappointment might end up being if this is their only HDV cam anouncement for the year. While I enjoy watching the hi-end cams the reality is I'll probably never be able to afford one since I don't make my living with video. However, I really had (well, still have) my fingers crossed for an $1800 Optura HDV to replace the Xi and go head on with the HC1. Oh well, different thread I suppose.

Philip Williams