New XL HDV shown at IBC

[Marty Hudzik]

I could be wrong also but this really seems bogus. I agree that this is totally out of character for Canon. They typically wait for a real working model before they anounce it and this lacks the usual polish that you see from them....so I tend to think it's bogus. Plus there is all kinds of news reports from IBC and no one has even mentioned this. Even if it's just HDV, it is still news worthy as it is Canon.

I smell a fake. And judging by the way that looks I hope I am right. I am not a huge fan of the "white" look of the XL2 but I like the it better than "black beauty" there!

[Peter Wiley]

I agree with Pete Bauer's wife. I looked at a couple of the images with Photoshop and see the same artifacts. In the first image at the edge of the camera right of the top set of volume controls there are pixels that form a right angle and do not blend with the background.

But beyond the pixels the exposure of this image seems screwy to me. I am wondering what kind of digital camera gets a very bright background (100% in the upper right) and such detail on the dim camera body. Also, in the first image, the depth of field from the viewfinder (fuzzy, no detail) to the camera body does not seem believable to me.

[Nate Weaver]

If you look in the directory those pics were stored, he has other pics from IBC, so he obviously was there.

I suspect it's what the camera will look like, minus the printing for buttons so the mockup or whatever it is will have "impact".

I'm sure we'll know more on Thursday morning.

[Chris Hurd]

Originally Posted by Marty Hudzik

I agree that this is totally out of character for Canon. They typically wait for a real working model before they anounce it and this lacks the usual polish that you see from them....

You would think that, probably due to my constant hammering on that particular consistency of theirs. However... it hasn't *always* been this way. For example the first public showing of the XL1 was back in 1997 at MacWorld, and it was just a wooden mock-up under glass. Never mind that they haven't done that since... the point is, they *have* done it before. It's just highly irregular for them.

[Kevin Wild]

Well, it sure does make sense that it would be the EASIEST way to get into the market quickly. If Canon was caught with their pants down (thinking they'd have a hit with the XL2 only to have the entire interest turn towards HDV), then I can totally see them saying "use everything about the XL2 and just get the HDV camera out now."

I love my XL2, but I seriously think they came to market with it about a year or year and a half late. Wow, 24p?! Sigh...come on, Canon. Maybe the whole "last in" thing just doesn't work as well these days.

So, if these pics are correct and it's just an HDV version of the XL2, I guess I will get one take a big loss selling my XL2. I'm sure it will look excellent for HDV. However, I am constantly disappointed with terms of "revolutionary" when things are hardly that. IF this is just an HDV version of the XL2, it's MUCH more evolutionary. I still hope/wish that Canon gave us something from their "pro" division...and better than HDV.

Kevin

[Chris Hurd]

By the way, for all XL2 owners who would like a free upgrade, send your camcorders to me. I have a garage, an airbrush, and plenty of flat black paint. No masking tape required.

[Kevin Wild]

Ugh...that's depressing, Chris. A simlar joke on the DVX board said "paint and an HDV sticker."

Seriously, if this is the real deal, I wonder if they'd have some sort of upgrade plan. I guess not and don't remember them ever doing something like that, but if it was ever warranted...it is now. 1 year old XL2 already finished? (I'm assuming that this "XL3-HDV" would also shoot DV...making the XL2 basically obsolete.)

I can't wait to be "officially disappointed" next week.

Kevin

[Steven White]

I really don't get this attitude from the XL2 owners. What the heck is Canon supposed to do? Just wait a good interval so you all feel like you "got your value" while they're losing market share because they're sitting on a product? I don't think so. The XL2 is great, but it was too little too late, and we all knew it when it came out.

My only hope is that if Canon does implement an HDV2 1080p24 mode, they have the brains to make sure the MPEG-2 codec goes at the images with progressive flags, does 2:3:3:2, and has "drop" frame flag for the middle one.

-Steve

[Marty Hudzik]

If there is any truth to this why are we not hearing any legitimate news regarding it? This one guy is the onlu one to see it at the show? Nobody is asking questions? No other person there saw it or is it just "drab" in comparison to the almighty HVX debut that no one cares? I am really wondering why I am getting bombarded with emails about all the new products and software releases at the show but nothing about anything there that is Canon.

Chris,
I agree that this could be legit and just "not usual" operating procedures but why no press coverage or any other coverage? Even a few independent people at the show to confirm this would give it credibility. I am still very doubtful. The only good news if this were true is that my 16x manual lens would theoretically be compatible with the lens mount. And it's already black so it would match!

For what it is worth I personally can't see any photoshop work on the camera in those images. Like someone said earlier this is in a folder with other photos so that adds legitamacy to the photos. My theory was just based on track record of Canon...not on the qulaity of the photos.

[Kevin Wild]

Please, Steven, don't be too hard on us. :-) Sympathy is much more friendly sounding. I think many of us that know Canon product releases pretty well, thought that this was the best Canon would have out for a couple years. That's not a crazy notion if you read these boards and many others or if you look over their product release history.

I will be very glad if they break that cycle and get something really groundbreaking out now. But am I not allowed to feel a little depressed or bitter having just shelled out $4500 12 months ago? Jeeze, gimme a break.

My actual disappointment is that it's not HUGE jump to HD, if it is only to HDV. Some may argue that, but so far I've seen little from the JVC or SONY's that has blown me away compared to some of the shots I've gotten with the XL2.

My $.02...

Kevin

[Christopher C. Murphy]

Looks either fake or Canon's design department has got some explaining to do! It really does look like a spray paint job. Unfortuately, it does look real to me.

Is it just me or did any of you feel very underwhelmed upon looking at the photos. I want to be impressed. Even though I didn't buy the new JVC...I was very impressed with the look and feel of it in photos and in person.

It's probably time for me to buy an interchangeable lense camera, but I think the JVC looks more HDV than these photos. Of course, we'll see..

By the way, if Canon bypassed the HDV thing and went solid state (cheaper than Panny) they'd kill all of them...maybe they will? This could be a trick to make it even more of a surprise when they announce!

[Pete Bauer]

C'mon, think about this, video fans! Canon's got a block of painted wood and plastic under plexiglass with an "HDV" sticker on it...while the competition is displaying a working model that does 1080/60i + 1080/24p + 720/60p camera at up to 100mb/sec? And nobody's reporting this but a newbie at a specialty site for that very competition?

Puh-LEASE! NO. STINKIN'. WAY. I still say it is a fake done with the guy's Nikon Capture Editor (check the metadata in the pictures -- anything useful is stripped out, except the software info in the advanced section).

Canon will do better than this, either at Canon Expo or not too long thereafter. And you know, I used to think that the WunderKam would totally kill new XL2 sales. A new camera would have to hurt the XL2, but now I'm thinking it may be viable for a while. After all, if they ARE going to trump Panasonic somehow, the WunderKam will have to be at least as expensive as the HVX200, which still leaves a lower price point for the XL2 to compete in for at least a while (maybe the $3500 range?). Not everyone will drop the kind of cash it takes for an HVX200 or a WunderKam for their market niche...plenty of folks who COULD have gotten HDV cameras have not done so (a few quite vocally like some of our WEVA types) because their customers aren't ready to pay for HD shooting that they can't stick in their DVD player yet. They'll be happy to pick up another XL2 at a good price for the couple more years of good use they can get from it.

That was too many words to say, "This is bogus. It's too soon to be disappointed!"

[Marty Hudzik]

Originally Posted by Pete Bauer

C'mon, think about this, video fans! Canon's got a block of painted wood and plastic under plexiglass with an "HDV" sticker on it...while the competition is displaying a working model that does 1080/60i + 1080/24p + 720/60p camera at up to 100mb/sec? And nobody's reporting this but a newbie at a specialty site for that very competition?

Puh-LEASE! NO. STINKIN'. WAY. I still say it is a fake done with the guy's Nikon Capture Editor (check the metadata in the pictures -- anything useful is stripped out, except the software info in the advanced section).

Canon will do better than this, either at Canon Expo or not too long thereafter. And you know, I used to think that the WunderKam would totally kill new XL2 sales. A new camera would have to hurt the XL2, but now I'm thinking it may be viable for a while. After all, if they ARE going to trump Panasonic somehow, the WunderKam will have to be at least as expensive as the HVX200, which still leaves a lower price point for the XL2 to compete in for at least a while (maybe the $3500 range?). Not everyone will drop the kind of cash it takes for an HVX200 or a WunderKam for their market niche...plenty of folks who COULD have gotten HDV cameras have not done so (a few quite vocally like some of our WEVA types) because their customers aren't ready to pay for HD shooting that they can't stick in their DVD player yet. They'll be happy to pick up another XL2 at a good price for the couple more years of good use they can get from it.

That was too many words to say, "This is bogus. It's too soon to be disappointed!"

I agree with you in so many ways Pete but I wish I had your convictions. The pictures looked real enough to me upon quick review. I suppose if you looked at the metadata of the images and there is something in there that doesn't jive with the other photos taken at the IBC show then you have a point. They should all have similar information if they are indeed all taken with the same cam at the same show. I am just not 100% sure. I am hoping you are right!

[Greg Boston]

I don't have a photo editor here on the laptop so I can't do a thorough examination. I'll defer to Pete on this one. It does seem odd that somehow only 1 individual would have any info or news about this so-called new Canon camera. I smell a rat. And to answer Murph, I was definitely underwhelmed.

=gb=

[Chris Hurd]

Well, I think our own Rob Lohman is about to go in, so hopefully we'll hear from him soon.