Upgraded from XL2 to H1a... Grainy import, REALLY grainy import (into FCS) at DVinfo.net

Lance Clifford · July 14th, 2010, 05:00 PM

Ok, I know my first mistake was using the "Auto" setting, but I don't think that's my issue. The footage is crystal clear in the view finder on playback.

Here is what my settings were/are when importing:

Camera is in HD mode @ 60i.
Playback std: HDV
Comp.out: 1080i/480i
HD Down-conv: off

Final Cut import set to HDV - 1080i60 FireWire Basic

Please help an HD newbie figure this out. I am sure this is something simple, but the picture is horrible!

Here's a screenshot:

http://www.jkowners.com/temp/shot.jpg

Thanks in advance.

Chris Soucy · July 14th, 2010, 11:11 PM

"Access Forbidden" to that link.

CS

Per Johan Naesje · July 15th, 2010, 12:52 AM

Lance, as Chris says - could not get permission to view the image!

I have been using Canon XL-H1 for years, shooting 1080i50 (I'm in PAL land). Never had any issues in quality importing into FCP.
Your camcorder setting is correct and should not cause any trouble.
You say that you shoot in Auto, that could be a problem, as the gain would probably be high in low light situations. Viewing the footage in the tiny viewfinder will not give you any information about how grainy your footage are! Have you tried to hook the camcorder to an TV, viewing your footage by using component out (the red, blue green)
My advice for you would be to NOT shot in Auto! I always shot M (manual) which in my opinion is the best way to get stunning footage from the H1.
Also put the gain selector off the Auto position. In outdoor daylight I set it to -3 and for indoors shot 0 or +3. I found it's way too grainy if you use more than +6.
You should also chech that your FCP timeline is HDV 1080i60. Beware that HDV is a processor intensive codec, which could cause a downgraded image. For better editing performance you should consider using ProRes 422 if you are on FCP 6 or higher.

Les Wilson · July 15th, 2010, 06:27 AM

Grain usually comes from the gain being too high. I shot a whole day of beautiful daytime scenic footage and never noticed that I had accidently set the AGC (auto gain control) to ON. The H1 has a low resolution viewfinder so it's easy to miss it.

Lance Clifford · July 15th, 2010, 07:35 AM

I will have to see if I can round up a monitor to connect directly to the camera to view the footage. I'm pretty certain it won't be grainy.

The captured footage is half the quality of my XL2 (that is shot in auto mode as well).

This image should work, sorry for the forbidden error: http://www.jkowners.com/temp/shot.jpg

I'll definitely take some time and play with Manual mode.

Lance Clifford · July 15th, 2010, 10:29 AM

Here's a quick youtube of the XL H1 and an XL2 side by side, shooting the same shot. Both were set to "Auto".

YouTube - Sample video

Nick Hiltgen · July 15th, 2010, 12:42 PM

Well it's one of two things, either your sensor is bad or the camera's auto gain was on. From the looks of your still frame it's the gain. The xl2 has larger pixels per sensor size so it doesn't need as much gain to get the same exposure. There is a program called NEAT that supposedly does a good job of cleaning the footage up.

Shaggy Franks · January 29th, 2011, 04:25 PM

I have the same problem with a XL H1s tha can be followed here http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl...ml#post1612706

:(

Maybe it should have been the Panasonic ;)

July 14th, 2010, 05:00 PM	#1
Lance Clifford New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Georgetown, CA Posts: 7	Upgraded from XL2 to H1a... Grainy import, REALLY grainy import (into FCS) Ok, I know my first mistake was using the "Auto" setting, but I don't think that's my issue. The footage is crystal clear in the view finder on playback. Here is what my settings were/are when importing: Camera is in HD mode @ 60i. Playback std: HDV Comp.out: 1080i/480i HD Down-conv: off Final Cut import set to HDV - 1080i60 FireWire Basic Please help an HD newbie figure this out. I am sure this is something simple, but the picture is horrible! Here's a screenshot: http://www.jkowners.com/temp/shot.jpg Thanks in advance. Last edited by Lance Clifford; July 15th, 2010 at 07:36 AM.

July 14th, 2010, 11:11 PM	#2
Chris Soucy Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, Dunedin, New Zealand Posts: 3,690 Images: 18	Sorry, Lance................... "Access Forbidden" to that link. CS

July 15th, 2010, 12:52 AM	#3
Per Johan Naesje Trustee Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Akershus, Norway Posts: 1,413	Lance, as Chris says - could not get permission to view the image! I have been using Canon XL-H1 for years, shooting 1080i50 (I'm in PAL land). Never had any issues in quality importing into FCP. Your camcorder setting is correct and should not cause any trouble. You say that you shoot in Auto, that could be a problem, as the gain would probably be high in low light situations. Viewing the footage in the tiny viewfinder will not give you any information about how grainy your footage are! Have you tried to hook the camcorder to an TV, viewing your footage by using component out (the red, blue green) My advice for you would be to NOT shot in Auto! I always shot M (manual) which in my opinion is the best way to get stunning footage from the H1. Also put the gain selector off the Auto position. In outdoor daylight I set it to -3 and for indoors shot 0 or +3. I found it's way too grainy if you use more than +6. You should also chech that your FCP timeline is HDV 1080i60. Beware that HDV is a processor intensive codec, which could cause a downgraded image. For better editing performance you should consider using ProRes 422 if you are on FCP 6 or higher. __________________ - Per Johan

July 15th, 2010, 12:42 PM	#7
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Well it's one of two things, either your sensor is bad or the camera's auto gain was on. From the looks of your still frame it's the gain. The xl2 has larger pixels per sensor size so it doesn't need as much gain to get the same exposure. There is a program called NEAT that supposedly does a good job of cleaning the footage up. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

January 29th, 2011, 04:25 PM	#8
Shaggy Franks Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Georgia Posts: 76	I have the same problem with a XL H1s tha can be followed here http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-xl...ml#post1612706 :( Maybe it should have been the Panasonic ;) __________________ Apple Pro

July 15th, 2010, 06:27 AM	#4
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	Grain usually comes from the gain being too high. I shot a whole day of beautiful daytime scenic footage and never noticed that I had accidently set the AGC (auto gain control) to ON. The H1 has a low resolution viewfinder so it's easy to miss it.

July 15th, 2010, 07:35 AM	#5
Lance Clifford New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Georgetown, CA Posts: 7	I will have to see if I can round up a monitor to connect directly to the camera to view the footage. I'm pretty certain it won't be grainy. The captured footage is half the quality of my XL2 (that is shot in auto mode as well). This image should work, sorry for the forbidden error: http://www.jkowners.com/temp/shot.jpg I'll definitely take some time and play with Manual mode.

July 15th, 2010, 10:29 AM	#6
Lance Clifford New Boot Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Georgetown, CA Posts: 7	Here's a quick youtube of the XL H1 and an XL2 side by side, shooting the same shot. Both were set to "Auto". YouTube - Sample video