XL3 HD by July???

Patrick King · May 9th, 2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Zimmerman

"HDV" is a trademark of Sony Corporation and Victor Company of Japan,
Limited (JVC).

Canon has not announced any decisions to join or support the HDV format.'

Just as another confirmation of this, review the HDV Format Supporters List . Canon is NOT on the list.

Luis Caffesse · May 9th, 2005, 08:50 AM

Nice link Patrick, thanks for that.

This is fascinating, because it was made such a big deal of when the consortium was first announced, and Canon was definitely part of it at the time.

Oddly enough, to corroborate what the Canon rep told Bob, if you look at the 'Trademarks' section of the link Patrick posted, it says this:

HDV and HDV logo are trademarks of Sony Corporation and Victor Company of Japan, Limited (JVC).

Exactly what was stated in the email that Bob received.

No mention of Canon at all.
Did they decide to quietly back away from supporting HDV?
Weird.

Bob Zimmerman · May 9th, 2005, 09:06 AM

I think I remember Canon on that list and I know alot of people said they were....

Luis Caffesse · May 9th, 2005, 09:21 AM

Well, they are no where to be seen on the HDV format website.
The only mention I've seen of Canon in connection to the HDV format is when the consortium was first announced back in 2003.

It is weird that if Canon was part of the consortium that there is no mention of them on the official HDV site, other than the initial announcement 2 years ago.

Then again, there is no mention of Sharp either, and they were part of the consortium as well...so maybe it doesn't mean anything at all.

I wonder why the trademarks are only registered to Sony and JVC?
Hmmm... probably doesn't mean anything.

Bob Zimmerman · May 9th, 2005, 09:37 AM

I did a quick search on this website. I thought at one time there was a list here. But I saw plenty of people talking about Canon being part of the consortium. People like Douglas Spotted Eagle where saying it.

Luis Caffesse · May 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM

Bob,

they are listed on the original press release, along with Sony, JVC and Sharp.
You can see the press release at HDV-info.
But there is no other mention of them on that site.

Then again, like I said, there is no mention of Sharp either, so I don't know that it really means anything.

I just sent an email to the contact address for HDV-info to see if they could shed any light on this. If I hear back from them I'll let you know.

Bob Zimmerman · May 9th, 2005, 09:45 AM

It kind of sounds like Sony and JVC cut everyone else out. If HDV doesn't catch on as a pro camera it might be good for all the little handy cams. I'm sure there is more money selling handycams than pro cameras anyway.

Think of the market on a scaled down HDV home video camera! Someday just plug it into your Playstation4 and burn a copy!

Boyd Ostroff · May 9th, 2005, 09:47 AM

That is interesting. Searching here at DVinfo turns up several references to Canon's participation, inclulding this link the a Japanese Canon press release: http://web.canon.jp/pressrelease/2003/hdv.html. Running it through Babelfish

Quote:

4 corporations of the CANON corporation, the sharp corporation, the SONY corporation and the Nippon Victor corporation Kousei detail (HD) make the record playback of image possible making use of the DV standard cassette tape, "HDV (the tentative name) basic specification of standard" was decided. 720p (the progressive) system and 1080i (interlace) there is a system in "HDV standard", the commodity development which conforms to HD below of the world widely is possible. 4 corporations as you propose to the industry which is related this specification positively, with the goal of around 2003 September think that we would like to decide "HDV standard" formal edition.

There's also a JVC press release: http://www.jvc-victor.co.jp/english/press/2003/hdv.html

Chris Hurd · May 9th, 2005, 10:03 AM

Well, this all sort of relates to the reasons why framed sites should be outlawed, and as the owner of a formerly framed site, I can say that with all the conviction that the converted can muster. You guys are talking about the official HDV Format site at http://www.hdv-info.org -- which is framed, making it hard to point to direct links. But here ya go, and follow closely...

This page: http://www.hdv-info.org/support.htm is just a list of additional companies who have committed to supporting HDV. Canon isn't on it but neither are the other three core members of the consortium (Sharp, JVC and Sony). The listing on this page for Sony Pictures Digital Networks refers to another division of Sony which is separate from the division doing R&D on the format. So in other words, on that Supporters page you will find none of the core members of the HDV consortium.

Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps,

Bob Zimmerman · May 9th, 2005, 10:12 AM

So if they are listed there why are they not allowed to use HDV? Only Sony and JVC? Are you saying they supported the idea at the start...but not now.

Luis Caffesse · May 9th, 2005, 10:23 AM

Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps,

I saw that Chris, but what I thought was odd was that the site states HDV and the HDV logo as being trademarked by Sony and JVC.

It just seemed weird that there is no mention of Sharp or Canon other than in the original consortium press release from 2003.

Dave Eanton · May 9th, 2005, 12:32 PM

That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time...

Luis Caffesse · May 9th, 2005, 02:32 PM

That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time...

Well, more realistically it probably doesn't mean anything more than Canon didn't actually have a hand in creating HDV, they simply were on the consortium of companies saying they would support HDV in their productline.

It's possible, I'm guessing here, that Sony and JVC did the actual leg work in creating the codec and supporting hardware, and therefore they share the legal copyright. I suppose if and when Canon releases an HDV camera they would have to license the technology like anyone else.

The idea of them releasing a DVCProHD camera seem highly unlikely, as I doubt panasonic would release it to them. Then again, what do i know?

Patrick King · May 9th, 2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luis Caffesse

Then again, what do i know?

Luis,

On this topic, I'd say you know about as much as anyone of us here, not much. But your speculation is well reasoned and makes as much sense as any other guesses listed. Isn't Area 51 fun!

OK, so if your logic is correct and DVCProHD isn't Canon's path (and I tend to agree with you from what I've read), and Canon doesn't use HDV (which hasn't been completely discounted), what else is there?

Just a new proprietary codec? Or is there another route (WMV-HD)? Others?

Bob Zimmerman · May 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM

This line from the e-mail from the rep:" I presume that Canon's
engineers are currently working on something." You know he is right about that. I'm sure they are not sitting around watch TV and wondering what to do next. Are there only two ways to do hi-def? I don't think Canon is going to close up shop.

May 9th, 2005, 08:50 AM	#47
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Nice link Patrick, thanks for that. This is fascinating, because it was made such a big deal of when the consortium was first announced, and Canon was definitely part of it at the time. Oddly enough, to corroborate what the Canon rep told Bob, if you look at the 'Trademarks' section of the link Patrick posted, it says this: HDV and HDV logo are trademarks of Sony Corporation and Victor Company of Japan, Limited (JVC). Exactly what was stated in the email that Bob received. No mention of Canon at all. Did they decide to quietly back away from supporting HDV? Weird. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

May 9th, 2005, 09:21 AM	#49
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Well, they are no where to be seen on the HDV format website. The only mention I've seen of Canon in connection to the HDV format is when the consortium was first announced back in 2003. It is weird that if Canon was part of the consortium that there is no mention of them on the official HDV site, other than the initial announcement 2 years ago. Then again, there is no mention of Sharp either, and they were part of the consortium as well...so maybe it doesn't mean anything at all. I wonder why the trademarks are only registered to Sony and JVC? Hmmm... probably doesn't mean anything. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

May 9th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#51
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Bob, they are listed on the original press release, along with Sony, JVC and Sharp. You can see the press release at HDV-info. But there is no other mention of them on that site. Then again, like I said, there is no mention of Sharp either, so I don't know that it really means anything. I just sent an email to the contact address for HDV-info to see if they could shed any light on this. If I hear back from them I'll let you know. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

May 9th, 2005, 10:03 AM	#54
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Well, this all sort of relates to the reasons why framed sites should be outlawed, and as the owner of a formerly framed site, I can say that with all the conviction that the converted can muster. You guys are talking about the official HDV Format site at http://www.hdv-info.org -- which is framed, making it hard to point to direct links. But here ya go, and follow closely... This page: http://www.hdv-info.org/support.htm is just a list of additional companies who have committed to supporting HDV. Canon isn't on it but neither are the other three core members of the consortium (Sharp, JVC and Sony). The listing on this page for Sony Pictures Digital Networks refers to another division of Sony which is separate from the division doing R&D on the format. So in other words, on that Supporters page you will find none of the core members of the HDV consortium. Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 9th, 2005, 10:23 AM	#56
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	Those founding core members of the HDV consortium are instead listed on another page at that same site... see http://www.hdv-info.org/page2.htm and you'll find Canon listed right at the top, where it's always been since the beginning. Hope this helps, I saw that Chris, but what I thought was odd was that the site states HDV and the HDV logo as being trademarked by Sony and JVC. It just seemed weird that there is no mention of Sharp or Canon other than in the original consortium press release from 2003. __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

May 9th, 2005, 09:06 AM	#48
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	I think I remember Canon on that list and I know alot of people said they were....

May 9th, 2005, 09:37 AM	#50
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	I did a quick search on this website. I thought at one time there was a list here. But I saw plenty of people talking about Canon being part of the consortium. People like Douglas Spotted Eagle where saying it.

May 9th, 2005, 09:45 AM	#52
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	It kind of sounds like Sony and JVC cut everyone else out. If HDV doesn't catch on as a pro camera it might be good for all the little handy cams. I'm sure there is more money selling handycams than pro cameras anyway. Think of the market on a scaled down HDV home video camera! Someday just plug it into your Playstation4 and burn a copy!

May 9th, 2005, 10:12 AM	#55
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	So if they are listed there why are they not allowed to use HDV? Only Sony and JVC? Are you saying they supported the idea at the start...but not now.

May 9th, 2005, 12:32 PM	#57
Dave Eanton Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: CANADA Posts: 56	That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time... __________________ XL1s, XL2, 3x Wide lens, Matrox RTX 100 pro, Premiere Pro 1.5, After Effects 6.5, Encore, Audition

May 9th, 2005, 02:32 PM	#58
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	That might mean that Canon may actually go for the DVCProHD format. This sounds more interesting all the time... Well, more realistically it probably doesn't mean anything more than Canon didn't actually have a hand in creating HDV, they simply were on the consortium of companies saying they would support HDV in their productline. It's possible, I'm guessing here, that Sony and JVC did the actual leg work in creating the codec and supporting hardware, and therefore they share the legal copyright. I suppose if and when Canon releases an HDV camera they would have to license the technology like anyone else. The idea of them releasing a DVCProHD camera seem highly unlikely, as I doubt panasonic would release it to them. Then again, what do i know? __________________ Luis Caffesse Pitch Productions Austin, Texas

May 9th, 2005, 03:00 PM	#60
Bob Zimmerman Major Player Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Illinois Posts: 888	This line from the e-mail from the rep:" I presume that Canon's engineers are currently working on something." You know he is right about that. I'm sure they are not sitting around watch TV and wondering what to do next. Are there only two ways to do hi-def? I don't think Canon is going to close up shop.