Weird Video Problem at DVinfo.net

Greg Hudson · April 6th, 2009, 11:01 AM

Hey Everyone,

I am new to this forum and have enjoyed reading the comments.

I have recently encountered a new problem with our XL-H1 that I have never seen before. We have started a new venture filming homes for sale. Virtual video tours. After shooting a home in SD 4x3 manual mode, we captured the footage to our Velocity Q system and noticed we had an odd wave pattern runing through the video at times. We have been shooting with the XL-H1 for 2 years now and have never seen this problem before. The really odd thing is that this is happening on all three of my canon cameras. Following the advise of Robert Sanders, I ran a live component feed out to a monitor and still saw the wave pattern. It is also on the original mini dv tape. I have posted the footage on our site at Real Estate Theater. After the opening click on "enter your real estate theatre here" and the click on "View our demos" and play the video "Graywalls". Has anyone encountered this problem before?

I was also wondering if anyone had a preferred encoding program and preferred settings.

Thanks!

Mark Job · April 6th, 2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Hudson

Hey Everyone,

I am new to this forum and have enjoyed reading the comments.

I have recently encountered a new problem with our XL-H1 that I have never seen before. We have started a new venture filming homes for sale. Virtual video tours. After shooting a home in SD 4x3 manual mode, we captured the footage to our Velocity Q system and noticed we had an odd wave pattern runing through the video at times. We have been shooting with the XL-H1 for 2 years now and have never seen this problem before. The really odd thing is that this is happening on all three of my canon cameras. Following the advise of Robert Sanders, I ran a live component feed out to a monitor and still saw the wave pattern. It is also on the original mini dv tape. I have posted the footage on our site at Real Estate Theater. After the opening click on "enter your real estate theatre here" and the click on "View our demos" and play the video "Graywalls". Has anyone encountered this problem before?

I was also wondering if anyone had a preferred encoding program and preferred settings.

Thanks!

...I am 90 % sure it's your DPS system. I have owned a DPS system for over 11 years and all DPS systems are known for their suseptability to RF interfearance. The chance of all 3 of your H1 cameras being busted in the same way is very, very, unlikely. I have an old Perception RT, and I recall very clearly reading a warning in the hardware setup maual about running the video and audio connector snake in paralell directions to the PC because this will create harringbone RF interfearance.

Greg Hudson · April 6th, 2009, 03:32 PM

Thanks Mark,

That may be the problem. We recently moved and have down sized our editing space. So cables are alot closer than they use to be. I'll let you know what I find out.

Battle Vaughan · April 6th, 2009, 03:51 PM

Was unable to locate Real Estate Theatre, so I'm not positive what you're seeing, but I have seen a periodic ripple through video signals sent over a longish (100 ft) cable run. We bought a hum eliminator for our pool video kit which seems to help: two such products are the Ocean Matrix Video Hum Eliminator and the ADC Humbucker. FWIW we got ours at Markertek.com, I'm sure there are other sources. /Battle Vaughan /miamiherald.com video team

Greg Hudson · April 6th, 2009, 04:11 PM

Hey Battle,

Thanks for the info. Try virtualhomesofdistinction.com Let me know what you think of the site. Is it easy to use and understand? Not all video clips are up yet. Any comments or thoughts on the site are very welcome. We have not placed ourselves in the search engines yet. We want to make sure everything is as close to perfect as possible first.

Thanks,
Greg

Battle Vaughan · April 7th, 2009, 03:14 PM

What I see looks like a de-interlacing problem, or lack of deinterlacing (web video is progressive). The vertical waves have me stumped. The waviness I have seen from induced AC or RF noise looks like a wave rolling slowly from bottom to top, kind of a synch issue, which this doesn't resemble.
If you are doing a Ken-Burns thing with stills, you will often get (at least in Final Cut, don't know elsewhere) the kind of jaggies I see in the frames here; we found that adding a tiny amount of motion blur eliminates this (in FCP, we use a value of 65). But this is video, not stills, right?

As to the site, it is classy and beautifully crafted...I'm not a web designer, but our people have told me over and over ---make it quickly accessable or people will click off...I think the elaborate opener has a lot of style but it is sloooowww...maybe an option to bypass the opener would be good, particularly since this is the kind of site people return to a lot. They've seen it all after the first visit, want to get to the content.

We get beat up by the designers on our video openers---they want us to have a grabber in the first 10 seconds of a vid, saying that's where we win or lose people ---our visitors have the attention span of fruitflies, apparently....hope this helps somehow..../ B Vaughan

Kevin Martorana · April 8th, 2009, 08:41 PM

Greg,

I have seen this problem before. At least from what I can see on your small web clips.

We've had our XLH1 for over 4 years. One of the first jobs I shot with it...was a 4x3 DV job.
We had the "anti aliasing" and "stair stepping" in all the video. I was astounded. It recorded that way on the tape.

I called Canon and freaked ! Bottom line...they said the chips are native 16x9. When you shoot 4x3 it is doing a scaling of sorts...hence you "might" get some aliasing. The camera is designed for HD. That's was the official word from Canon.

If you want to try a test...shoot SD in the 16x9 mode...and see if you have the same problem. Then pillarbox the shots... Canon recommended this as a work around.

I never tried that...because...I considered the SD to be unacceptable. HD on the other hand....it's still one of the best cameras out there. The image quality and quality it can put on a long gop 25mb tape is truly amazing !!!

So....I hope it is just a "cable issue" for you....but I was never truly delighted with the camera's 4x3 performance....but then again...I never bought it for that ! ;)

Greg Hudson · April 11th, 2009, 10:22 AM

Thanks Battle and Kevin,

I took your suggestion and shot some footage in 16x9 SD. The video was a little better but the problem is still there. I am going to shoot some footage in 16x9 HD today and see what happens. Have either of you used the "down convert" in the menu. Do you think it works well.

Battle, I took your advise on the opening on the web site and have sent an email to the design team. Great thought! Thanks for the input. All comments are welcome, both good and bad. Thats the only way we learn.

Have a great day!

April 6th, 2009, 11:01 AM	#1
Greg Hudson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 7	Weird Video Problem Hey Everyone, I am new to this forum and have enjoyed reading the comments. I have recently encountered a new problem with our XL-H1 that I have never seen before. We have started a new venture filming homes for sale. Virtual video tours. After shooting a home in SD 4x3 manual mode, we captured the footage to our Velocity Q system and noticed we had an odd wave pattern runing through the video at times. We have been shooting with the XL-H1 for 2 years now and have never seen this problem before. The really odd thing is that this is happening on all three of my canon cameras. Following the advise of Robert Sanders, I ran a live component feed out to a monitor and still saw the wave pattern. It is also on the original mini dv tape. I have posted the footage on our site at Real Estate Theater. After the opening click on "enter your real estate theatre here" and the click on "View our demos" and play the video "Graywalls". Has anyone encountered this problem before? I was also wondering if anyone had a preferred encoding program and preferred settings. Thanks!

April 8th, 2009, 08:41 PM	#7
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	Greg, I have seen this problem before. At least from what I can see on your small web clips. We've had our XLH1 for over 4 years. One of the first jobs I shot with it...was a 4x3 DV job. We had the "anti aliasing" and "stair stepping" in all the video. I was astounded. It recorded that way on the tape. I called Canon and freaked ! Bottom line...they said the chips are native 16x9. When you shoot 4x3 it is doing a scaling of sorts...hence you "might" get some aliasing. The camera is designed for HD. That's was the official word from Canon. If you want to try a test...shoot SD in the 16x9 mode...and see if you have the same problem. Then pillarbox the shots... Canon recommended this as a work around. I never tried that...because...I considered the SD to be unacceptable. HD on the other hand....it's still one of the best cameras out there. The image quality and quality it can put on a long gop 25mb tape is truly amazing !!! So....I hope it is just a "cable issue" for you....but I was never truly delighted with the camera's 4x3 performance....but then again...I never bought it for that ! ;) __________________ Shooting Video since 1/2" EIAJ reel to reel and editing on 2" QUAD machines. http://www.takeoneprod.com

April 6th, 2009, 03:32 PM	#3
Greg Hudson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 7	Thanks Mark, That may be the problem. We recently moved and have down sized our editing space. So cables are alot closer than they use to be. I'll let you know what I find out.

April 6th, 2009, 03:51 PM	#4
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	Was unable to locate Real Estate Theatre, so I'm not positive what you're seeing, but I have seen a periodic ripple through video signals sent over a longish (100 ft) cable run. We bought a hum eliminator for our pool video kit which seems to help: two such products are the Ocean Matrix Video Hum Eliminator and the ADC Humbucker. FWIW we got ours at Markertek.com, I'm sure there are other sources. /Battle Vaughan /miamiherald.com video team

April 6th, 2009, 04:11 PM	#5
Greg Hudson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 7	Hey Battle, Thanks for the info. Try virtualhomesofdistinction.com Let me know what you think of the site. Is it easy to use and understand? Not all video clips are up yet. Any comments or thoughts on the site are very welcome. We have not placed ourselves in the search engines yet. We want to make sure everything is as close to perfect as possible first. Thanks, Greg

April 7th, 2009, 03:14 PM	#6
Battle Vaughan Trustee Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Miami, FL USA Posts: 1,505	What I see looks like a de-interlacing problem, or lack of deinterlacing (web video is progressive). The vertical waves have me stumped. The waviness I have seen from induced AC or RF noise looks like a wave rolling slowly from bottom to top, kind of a synch issue, which this doesn't resemble. If you are doing a Ken-Burns thing with stills, you will often get (at least in Final Cut, don't know elsewhere) the kind of jaggies I see in the frames here; we found that adding a tiny amount of motion blur eliminates this (in FCP, we use a value of 65). But this is video, not stills, right? As to the site, it is classy and beautifully crafted...I'm not a web designer, but our people have told me over and over ---make it quickly accessable or people will click off...I think the elaborate opener has a lot of style but it is sloooowww...maybe an option to bypass the opener would be good, particularly since this is the kind of site people return to a lot. They've seen it all after the first visit, want to get to the content. We get beat up by the designers on our video openers---they want us to have a grabber in the first 10 seconds of a vid, saying that's where we win or lose people ---our visitors have the attention span of fruitflies, apparently....hope this helps somehow..../ B Vaughan

April 11th, 2009, 10:22 AM	#8
Greg Hudson New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Williamsburg, Virginia Posts: 7	Thanks Battle and Kevin, I took your suggestion and shot some footage in 16x9 SD. The video was a little better but the problem is still there. I am going to shoot some footage in 16x9 HD today and see what happens. Have either of you used the "down convert" in the menu. Do you think it works well. Battle, I took your advise on the opening on the web site and have sent an email to the design team. Great thought! Thanks for the input. All comments are welcome, both good and bad. Thats the only way we learn. Have a great day!