Sold my XL-H1 today

Michael Galvan · November 3rd, 2008, 11:34 AM

Chris, would I be able to host these clips on your server?

Joachim Hoge · November 3rd, 2008, 11:34 AM

I never intended to come off rude.
I thought to share my experience with the camera so potential buyers can make a sound decision that is right for them.
Me and a partner have shot with the XL series since the first came out and between us owed them all.
These are the cameras used for our own projects (that are now getting nigger and bigger).
I do most of my shooting with full size broadcast cameras and sometimes 35mm and 16mm cameras.
The fixed focus ring is such a big part of my shooting style.
I was happy with the XL series because it most resembled a full size camera and produce great images.
I just had to live with the short comings of the focus ring on the lenses as there were no other option anyway.

That has changed and now you do get cameras in the prize range with "pro" lenses with fixed focus ring etc.

This means I can now choose a camera system that better fits my style and needs when it comes to shooting.

The XL is still a great system for a lot of users

Pete Bauer · November 3rd, 2008, 11:38 AM

The main reason I bothered to post was we mods weren't happy with the whine factor, but the fact is that there's not anything new here.

Stated by Canon and oft repeated on DVinfo: the XL mount hasn't changed so any old XL lens may be used on a newer XL camera. The lens just won't support newer features not present at the time the lens was made. Last I was aware, the manual lens Canon produces for JVC was upward of $6-7K; as nice as it would be to see a fully manual HD XL lens, I can understand if Canon doesn't want to build something that they'll never sell enough of to recoup their costs. But if anything is announced, you can bet that DVinfo will be among the first to post it. There are two "current" lenses.

Convergent Design has a dedicated forum:
Convergent Design Flash XDR - The Digital Video Information Network

Joachim Hoge · November 3rd, 2008, 12:10 PM

Do JVC sell that many more units than Canon?
How can they recoupe the cost with that lens?

PS I did use the old manual lens on my H1, but it has a limited range.

Pete Bauer · November 3rd, 2008, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

How can they recoupe the cost with that lens?

Maybe they didn't...don't know. None of us knows sales volumes, but this makes it look rather bleak:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/jvc-pro-h...-lens-yet.html

No responses at all. As much as I'd like to see one (and have told Canon reps so at NAB two years in a row), it is hard to imagine them engineering an $8-9K manual XL lens if they don't think they'll sell many.

I'm not familiar with JVC stuff so maybe there's another Canon lens, but here is a link that shows $9800 MSRP for a Canon 20X (not entirely manual) lens: JVC Professional Accessories page. The XL lenses have never been in that price class.

Hope this discussion is useful to someone?

Joachim Hoge · November 3rd, 2008, 03:25 PM

Could very well be the reason why they don´t make one.

Point taken, lets leave it at this, as a long discussion was never what I intended, I was simply trying to share my experience and I´m sorry if that was taken as whining.

Chris Hurd · November 4th, 2008, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

Chris, would I be able to host these clips on your server?

Shoot me an email, Michael -- I'll be happy to host these clips for you. Thanks,

Craig Chartier · November 13th, 2008, 04:35 PM

I remember hearing somewhere at a NAB booth, that JVC being a customer of Canon pre-ordered X number of lens. So that would have given Canon the ability to make sure that they were into a profit margin on that creation. true or not it makes since.

I also know from a Fuji guy that to maintain the quality of a lens type as you shrink the imager, the cost would really double.. so an HD zoom lens for a 2/3 chip of the same quality would cost 80,000 in 1/2 chip alone ( if you take the fact that the 2/3rd fuji wide costs around 38,000 ) guess what a 1/3rd chip lens would cost??

Have you seen the quality of the JVC glass??? not that great when put to the res charts.. and thats a 720 imager right? so what would that same lens look like on a H1 ??

Canon above all is a company that makes great glass so maybe that lens wasn't good enough to put on their own line of product.

since you have no DOF ( or rather all DOF ) with 1/3rd chips and the zoom range of the two current interchangable lens are listed in one of the above posts, why would you need more lens?? You goto a MINI35 and primes if thats the case.

granted the focus and iris thing is an issue.

any camera in this price range is not going to cover all the bases. I guess what you have to do is find a solution that is works on the type of shooting you do most of the time. OR always rent the camera that best suits the shoot your on. then your giving the best product you can to your customer at that time.

Johan Forssblad · October 20th, 2011, 11:57 AM

Hi Joachim,
I agree with you. I cannot imagine why the 20x servo lens has to go from past infinity (!) to focus on 1 m in as little as 10° of focus ring rotation in wide. Fully zoomed in it is a reasonable 120° to go from infinity to 1 m. This different gearing depending on the actual zoom setting is driving me crazy!

It makes it so hard to focus and follow a moving object. This should be possible to fix in firmware. Isn't there anybody who can decompile the firmware and fix this major drawback?

Last week I was out doing some aerial video through a small window of the airplane. Fully wide and just touching the window posts, the lens changed its setting from infinity to 0.1 m many times, ruining expensive shots. Unfortunately it is not possible to tape the ring to stay in place.

WHY? WHY CANON?

November 3rd, 2008, 11:34 AM	#16
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	Hey Chris Hurd Chris, would I be able to host these clips on your server? __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

November 3rd, 2008, 11:38 AM	#18
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	The main reason I bothered to post was we mods weren't happy with the whine factor, but the fact is that there's not anything new here. Stated by Canon and oft repeated on DVinfo: the XL mount hasn't changed so any old XL lens may be used on a newer XL camera. The lens just won't support newer features not present at the time the lens was made. Last I was aware, the manual lens Canon produces for JVC was upward of $6-7K; as nice as it would be to see a fully manual HD XL lens, I can understand if Canon doesn't want to build something that they'll never sell enough of to recoup their costs. But if anything is announced, you can bet that DVinfo will be among the first to post it. There are two "current" lenses. Convergent Design has a dedicated forum: Convergent Design Flash XDR - The Digital Video Information Network __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

October 20th, 2011, 11:57 AM	#24
Johan Forssblad Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Vittsjö, SKÅNE, SWEDEN Posts: 266	XL-H1 crazy focus operation Hi Joachim, I agree with you. I cannot imagine why the 20x servo lens has to go from past infinity (!) to focus on 1 m in as little as 10° of focus ring rotation in wide. Fully zoomed in it is a reasonable 120° to go from infinity to 1 m. This different gearing depending on the actual zoom setting is driving me crazy! It makes it so hard to focus and follow a moving object. This should be possible to fix in firmware. Isn't there anybody who can decompile the firmware and fix this major drawback? Last week I was out doing some aerial video through a small window of the airplane. Fully wide and just touching the window posts, the lens changed its setting from infinity to 0.1 m many times, ruining expensive shots. Unfortunately it is not possible to tape the ring to stay in place. WHY? WHY CANON?

November 3rd, 2008, 11:34 AM	#17
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I never intended to come off rude. I thought to share my experience with the camera so potential buyers can make a sound decision that is right for them. Me and a partner have shot with the XL series since the first came out and between us owed them all. These are the cameras used for our own projects (that are now getting nigger and bigger). I do most of my shooting with full size broadcast cameras and sometimes 35mm and 16mm cameras. The fixed focus ring is such a big part of my shooting style. I was happy with the XL series because it most resembled a full size camera and produce great images. I just had to live with the short comings of the focus ring on the lenses as there were no other option anyway. That has changed and now you do get cameras in the prize range with "pro" lenses with fixed focus ring etc. This means I can now choose a camera system that better fits my style and needs when it comes to shooting. The XL is still a great system for a lot of users

November 3rd, 2008, 12:10 PM	#19
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Do JVC sell that many more units than Canon? How can they recoupe the cost with that lens? PS I did use the old manual lens on my H1, but it has a limited range.

November 3rd, 2008, 03:25 PM	#21
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Could very well be the reason why they don´t make one. Point taken, lets leave it at this, as a long discussion was never what I intended, I was simply trying to share my experience and I´m sorry if that was taken as whining.

November 13th, 2008, 04:35 PM	#23
Craig Chartier DVi Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 374	I remember hearing somewhere at a NAB booth, that JVC being a customer of Canon pre-ordered X number of lens. So that would have given Canon the ability to make sure that they were into a profit margin on that creation. true or not it makes since. I also know from a Fuji guy that to maintain the quality of a lens type as you shrink the imager, the cost would really double.. so an HD zoom lens for a 2/3 chip of the same quality would cost 80,000 in 1/2 chip alone ( if you take the fact that the 2/3rd fuji wide costs around 38,000 ) guess what a 1/3rd chip lens would cost?? Have you seen the quality of the JVC glass??? not that great when put to the res charts.. and thats a 720 imager right? so what would that same lens look like on a H1 ?? Canon above all is a company that makes great glass so maybe that lens wasn't good enough to put on their own line of product. since you have no DOF ( or rather all DOF ) with 1/3rd chips and the zoom range of the two current interchangable lens are listed in one of the above posts, why would you need more lens?? You goto a MINI35 and primes if thats the case. granted the focus and iris thing is an issue. any camera in this price range is not going to cover all the bases. I guess what you have to do is find a solution that is works on the type of shooting you do most of the time. OR always rent the camera that best suits the shoot your on. then your giving the best product you can to your customer at that time.