XL-H1 and JVC HD100 compatibility at DVinfo.net

Mitch Buss · June 8th, 2008, 10:49 PM

Hello all. I am shooting a 48 hour film festival film and we are using the XL-H1 and HD100 as our A and B cam. I have limited experience with both so I have a few questions. First of all, I know that the Canon has Genlock but the JVC has none, what is the best way to sync timecode without using a slate? Also, how do the images compare between the two? I imagine that they both have to be on par with each other. Finally, we plan and capturing tapes as we shoot. I own an HV20 and we would like to use this as the deck to capture our tapes from both cameras. Will both of these cameras play back on the HV20? I read a comparison article of these two cameras on this site, and it stated that the 24F mode (which we plan on shooting in) is only compatible with the XL-H1. I don't know if this was written before the release before the HV20, but I have to image that it should be able to read it. If anyone has experience with this please let me know. Thanks for the info.

Mitch

Dan Keaton · June 8th, 2008, 11:42 PM

Dear Mitch,

To the best of my knowledge, you will need the JVC camera to playback or capture your HD100 footage.

The Canon HV20 can be used for playback or capture of the XL H1 footage.

If you are capturing footage and not in a "Live Event" situation where you are switching between cameras, you do not need to use Genlock.

Setting timecode precisely the same on your two cameras would be difficult.

If you do not have a slate, and you are in control of your situation, you can clap your hands in front of both cameras, but both cameras will have to see your hands. If one camera is close to your hands and the other is far away, there will be a difference due to the speed of sound.

Your HD100 camera can shoot in 24p, but it is 720p.

Your XL H1 24f mode is essentially 24p, but the format is 1080, not 720p.

You can use XL H1 custom presets in an attempt to match the look of the HD100, but this will require some knowledge, work and testing prior to your 48 hour film festival.

Since you have an HV20, have you considered using it as your second camera?

Mitch Buss · June 9th, 2008, 12:48 AM

I have thought about using the HV20 as my B cam, but much rather prefer the depth of field and advanced features of the JVC. Since we are finishing SD, I don't think that the 720 vs. 1080 difference will be apparent. As for matching the image quality, is the difference mostly in color or what? Thanks for the input.

Mitch

Dan Keaton · June 9th, 2008, 05:16 AM

Dear Mitch,

When you are doing a two camera shoot, in post you will be "Cutting" from one camera to another. "Cutting" is switching from using the video from one camera to using the video of another.

It is very upsetting to the audience, whether they realize it or not, when there are significant differences in color or quality. One loses the illusion of "being there" if they do not "cut well".

So, to answer your question:

1. The main differnce that will affect you, in my opinion, will be color. If they do not match very closely, then every "cut" will become apparent instead of transparent.

For example, a red shirt may look different between the two cameras, or the general color cast of the scene may be entirely different.

2. In post, you can edit your footage together and attempt to color correct somewhat (which is not easy to do), then output all footage to 720p.

It will be much easier to match the HV20 to the XL H1.

Steve Phillipps · June 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM

Both 1/3" cchip cameras so depth of field will be the same at any given f stop.
Steve

Mitch Buss · June 9th, 2008, 10:30 AM

I am fully aware of the "aspect of cutting". I also am aware that the color will be different between the two cameras, my question is how different and if anyone has ever shot with these two before on the same shoot. What are some of the color trends that you notice between the two. For instance, I know that my HV20 has very bright, brilliant color in bright light , but when the image goes into low light, the image falls apart very quickly and performs very poorly. I need information like this. I am a senior cinematography at Columbia College. I just have not had hands on experience with these cameras. Thanks for all of your help.

Mitch

Dan Keaton · June 9th, 2008, 01:22 PM

Dear Mitch,

We are current shooting a movie with two JVC HD110u's and Red Rock Micro 35mm adpater.

We had the option of including an XL H1 as the primary camera, but we felt that it would not intercut successfully with the HD110u's, so it was left out of the mix.

I feel that cutting between two significantly different cameras creates too much work in post.

If you have access to the camers prior to the festival, I recommend that you run some tests.

I hope I did not offend you with my answer. I was attempting to be clear to you and other readers of the thread.

Mitch Buss · June 9th, 2008, 02:01 PM

No offense taken, I appreciate your answer. So you feel that the Canon HV20 will intercut more successfully than the HD100?

Dan Keaton · June 9th, 2008, 02:05 PM

Dear Mitch,

Definitely!

Mitch Buss · June 9th, 2008, 02:11 PM

Thank you all for your info, and finally, is there anyway other than synchronously slating both cameras, to sync the tapes together?

June 8th, 2008, 10:49 PM	#1
Mitch Buss Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 184	XL-H1 and JVC HD100 compatibility Hello all. I am shooting a 48 hour film festival film and we are using the XL-H1 and HD100 as our A and B cam. I have limited experience with both so I have a few questions. First of all, I know that the Canon has Genlock but the JVC has none, what is the best way to sync timecode without using a slate? Also, how do the images compare between the two? I imagine that they both have to be on par with each other. Finally, we plan and capturing tapes as we shoot. I own an HV20 and we would like to use this as the deck to capture our tapes from both cameras. Will both of these cameras play back on the HV20? I read a comparison article of these two cameras on this site, and it stated that the 24F mode (which we plan on shooting in) is only compatible with the XL-H1. I don't know if this was written before the release before the HV20, but I have to image that it should be able to read it. If anyone has experience with this please let me know. Thanks for the info. Mitch

June 8th, 2008, 11:42 PM	#2
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mitch, To the best of my knowledge, you will need the JVC camera to playback or capture your HD100 footage. The Canon HV20 can be used for playback or capture of the XL H1 footage. If you are capturing footage and not in a "Live Event" situation where you are switching between cameras, you do not need to use Genlock. Setting timecode precisely the same on your two cameras would be difficult. If you do not have a slate, and you are in control of your situation, you can clap your hands in front of both cameras, but both cameras will have to see your hands. If one camera is close to your hands and the other is far away, there will be a difference due to the speed of sound. Your HD100 camera can shoot in 24p, but it is 720p. Your XL H1 24f mode is essentially 24p, but the format is 1080, not 720p. You can use XL H1 custom presets in an attempt to match the look of the HD100, but this will require some knowledge, work and testing prior to your 48 hour film festival. Since you have an HV20, have you considered using it as your second camera? __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 9th, 2008, 05:16 AM	#4
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mitch, When you are doing a two camera shoot, in post you will be "Cutting" from one camera to another. "Cutting" is switching from using the video from one camera to using the video of another. It is very upsetting to the audience, whether they realize it or not, when there are significant differences in color or quality. One loses the illusion of "being there" if they do not "cut well". So, to answer your question: 1. The main differnce that will affect you, in my opinion, will be color. If they do not match very closely, then every "cut" will become apparent instead of transparent. For example, a red shirt may look different between the two cameras, or the general color cast of the scene may be entirely different. 2. In post, you can edit your footage together and attempt to color correct somewhat (which is not easy to do), then output all footage to 720p. It will be much easier to match the HV20 to the XL H1. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 9th, 2008, 01:22 PM	#7
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mitch, We are current shooting a movie with two JVC HD110u's and Red Rock Micro 35mm adpater. We had the option of including an XL H1 as the primary camera, but we felt that it would not intercut successfully with the HD110u's, so it was left out of the mix. I feel that cutting between two significantly different cameras creates too much work in post. If you have access to the camers prior to the festival, I recommend that you run some tests. I hope I did not offend you with my answer. I was attempting to be clear to you and other readers of the thread. __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 9th, 2008, 02:05 PM	#9
Dan Keaton Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Augusta Georgia Posts: 5,421	Dear Mitch, Definitely! __________________ Dan Keaton Augusta Georgia

June 9th, 2008, 12:48 AM	#3
Mitch Buss Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 184	I have thought about using the HV20 as my B cam, but much rather prefer the depth of field and advanced features of the JVC. Since we are finishing SD, I don't think that the 720 vs. 1080 difference will be apparent. As for matching the image quality, is the difference mostly in color or what? Thanks for the input. Mitch

June 9th, 2008, 09:49 AM	#5
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Both 1/3" cchip cameras so depth of field will be the same at any given f stop. Steve

June 9th, 2008, 10:30 AM	#6
Mitch Buss Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 184	I am fully aware of the "aspect of cutting". I also am aware that the color will be different between the two cameras, my question is how different and if anyone has ever shot with these two before on the same shoot. What are some of the color trends that you notice between the two. For instance, I know that my HV20 has very bright, brilliant color in bright light , but when the image goes into low light, the image falls apart very quickly and performs very poorly. I need information like this. I am a senior cinematography at Columbia College. I just have not had hands on experience with these cameras. Thanks for all of your help. Mitch

June 9th, 2008, 02:01 PM	#8
Mitch Buss Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 184	No offense taken, I appreciate your answer. So you feel that the Canon HV20 will intercut more successfully than the HD100?

June 9th, 2008, 02:11 PM	#10
Mitch Buss Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 184	Thank you all for your info, and finally, is there anyway other than synchronously slating both cameras, to sync the tapes together?