What could canon add to the XL-H2 at DVinfo.net

Nick Hiltgen · December 18th, 2007, 02:24 PM

I'm sorry for starting this, but it seems like canon is offering discounts and I wanted to get together all of the requests for the xl-h2, people seem to want it but I for one am not sure what could be offered.

1) HD-SDI with time code and audio embedded (this is a given)

2) Image flip everywhere not just the viewfinder

3) Some sort of internal hard drive recording option, I think expresscard 34 would work well with the form factor, pop a few in the back, I think it would work (file size) similarly to the fire store, but with interchangeability of the hvx. Don't know who would want it though.

This is all I have, which makes me wonder why canon would release a new version of the xl-h series. It's at about 2 years and there revision cycle is around 3, that coupled with the canon guys telling me that there wasn't much in the pipeline for the xl-h1 makes me think that after the promo period there may just be a price drop.

Does anyone else have suggestions? Comments?

Alkim Un · December 18th, 2007, 03:04 PM

50p/60p PAL NTSC switchable, with better codec alow uncompressed audio.
alkim.

Steve Rosen · December 18th, 2007, 07:07 PM

I doubt the codec will change anytime soon, we're pretty much stuck with HDV for a while - unless of course it is tapeless, adopts a whole new codec, and etc...

Personally, I would opt for an improved image in the finder.. I imagine small LCDs have improved considerably in the 2 years since the H1's introduction - that has been my biggest complaint about the camera...

Even though I don't use my H1 any more (it's for sale actually) I still think it's the best of the breed, and any improvement will be icing on a pretty good cake...

Kevin Martorana · December 18th, 2007, 07:58 PM

I'd like to see a better viewfinder. B/W or color...doesn't matter...just better resolution.

Downcovert output options from the BNC/RCA analog output. Centerpunch 4x3 or letterbox 4x3. The A1 does this...

20x lens with iris ring ON the lens...like the 6x.

Standard strap holders on the handle...so a Portabrace strap can be attached. Those small "slits" are great for a little consumer strap...but can't be easily accomodated to a professional strap.

Michael Galvan · December 18th, 2007, 09:58 PM

1. Top of the list is a better viewfinder. After using the color LCD on the Sony EX1, the Canon's looks like once that can never look focused at all. The Sony has a 1920x480 LCD and it is a marvel for focusing. (I've actually sent some requests about making a hi-res color viewfinder to Canon ... let's see what they do ... Maybe I'll talk to their rep next time he's at B&H)

2. 1/2" 1920x1080 chips similar to the Sony EX1. True Progressive CCD or CMOS (although the F modes work quite well, indistinguishable from 24P, the P would just allow for no resolution loss)...

3. Embedded HD-SDI out ( a given as Nick pointed out). Or to be pompous and elitist, have dual-HD-SDI out to record to HDCAM SR or a 4:4:4 capable codec.

4. Canon to come out with an all-optical 35mm adapter similar to what JVC did for their camera.

I'm sure I'll have more when I can think of it.

Chris Hurd · December 18th, 2007, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Galvan

1/2" 1920x1080 chips similar to the Sony EX1.

If they switch to half-inch chips, then it's no longer an XL, plus all of the current XL lenses wouldn't be compatible. Anything can happen, but I'm willing to bet that they stick with third-inch chips to insure backward compatibility with the existing XL line of lenses.

Gabriel Berube · December 19th, 2007, 08:40 AM

Well, if Canon switches to 1/2" CMOS like the Sony EX1, one thing they might try with the XL-mount line would be to add a crop-factor option in the menu, pretty much like Nikon did with it's D3 DSLR.

On the new D3, a full-frame DSLR, you can still use DX (smaller and lighter lenses designed for the APS-C small-CCD format many digital cams use), but you won't have the 12 mpix resolution the D3 can offer because the lens will only crop to a smaller portion of the CMOS. So all in all, you can use full-frame or DX lenses on the D3, but there's a rather major drawback to using the later.

So, if Canon gets its XL-H2 to a 1/2" CMOS instead of 1/3" and they decide that it will support XL-mounts, chances are that our lenses will still be used (I'm crossing my fingers here), albeith with a crop factor that would result in a small resolution loss plus a zoom-in factor. I personnally sure hope they don't flush down the XL-mount, 'cuz its what made me go with Canon for a while, but hey, what do I know about marketing? I'm just a consumer! :-)

As for what I'd like on the XL-H2, I'd really love a tapeless solution like the EX1, that would be awesome!

Gabe

Dale Stoltzfus · December 19th, 2007, 09:07 AM

Tapeless and, along with that, a departure from HDV. Uncompressed audio, non-mpeg, non-GOP, 4:2:2, etc.

All manual lens!

Daniel Epstein · December 19th, 2007, 04:06 PM

As Dale Said An HD lens which allows you to zoom and focus at the same time. Iris ring has been mentioned. Better viewfinder has been mentioned. More steps in Custom presets (ala XHA1 XHG1) Separate Auto gain for audio tracks 1 + 2 so you could run a camera mic in Auto and a Radio mic in Manual
Option to record HDV 24P like the HV20.

Benjamin Hill · December 19th, 2007, 04:19 PM

XLRs that are independently switchable as mic/line, and the ability to use the on-board mic and an external mic simultaneously would make this a more viable camera.

Kevin Martorana · December 19th, 2007, 06:07 PM

oh...I forgot another one...since the mic was mentioned..

Give us an XLR on-board mic...not one with th elittle consumer dual mini plugs.

Kyle Prohaska · December 19th, 2007, 06:46 PM

On top of all the other additions...a P2 slot. :P

- Kyle

Michael Galvan · December 19th, 2007, 07:06 PM

LOL ... a P2 slot that records HDV to the card ...

That's like slapping Panasonic in the face :P

Nick Hiltgen · December 19th, 2007, 09:54 PM

"If they switch to half-inch chips, then it's no longer an XL, plus all of the current XL lenses wouldn't be compatible. Anything can happen, but I'm willing to bet that they stick with third-inch chips to insure backward compatibility with the existing XL line of lenses."

Chris I'm inclined to agree with you on that with the exception that they have that flashing "non compatable lens" light pop up when ever you drop one of the legacy xl lenses on, I think maybe having that crop factor consideration would be a good option. I would love for canon to release an all optical 35 adapter though (even spoke to them about for a bit) Additionally the conversion out of the SD slot should be switchable, had completely forgotten about that. Seems like that could be a firmware update as well.

As far as 50p and 60p I can't say that I would have much use for it, which isn't to say it shouldn't be done, I just personally wouldn't use it. The p2/expresscard thing would be pretty sweet if it was recording as .mov or editable format (without the long GOF format) so that you could then have an invtervalometer option on the camera, that would be pretty sweet.

Chris Hurd · December 19th, 2007, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

Chris I'm inclined to agree with you on that with the exception that they have that flashing "non compatable lens" light pop up when ever you drop one of the legacy xl lenses on...

Hey Nick, not to split hairs but the warning that flashes in the EVF just says "HD Incompatible Lens" and goes away after a few seconds... and only when recording in HD mode.

Just saying, it's okay to dream big but I'm willing to bet that they stick with third-inch in order to keep the XL line, and P2, no way, the only P2 camcorders will be made by Panasonic. Sure would love to see tapeless though, as in AVC Intra. Or keep the tape transport but offer dual recording to flash memory... the SD card slot is already on the camera.

December 18th, 2007, 02:24 PM	#1
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	What could canon add to the XL-H2 I'm sorry for starting this, but it seems like canon is offering discounts and I wanted to get together all of the requests for the xl-h2, people seem to want it but I for one am not sure what could be offered. 1) HD-SDI with time code and audio embedded (this is a given) 2) Image flip everywhere not just the viewfinder 3) Some sort of internal hard drive recording option, I think expresscard 34 would work well with the form factor, pop a few in the back, I think it would work (file size) similarly to the fire store, but with interchangeability of the hvx. Don't know who would want it though. This is all I have, which makes me wonder why canon would release a new version of the xl-h series. It's at about 2 years and there revision cycle is around 3, that coupled with the canon guys telling me that there wasn't much in the pipeline for the xl-h1 makes me think that after the promo period there may just be a price drop. Does anyone else have suggestions? Comments? __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

December 18th, 2007, 03:04 PM	#2
Alkim Un Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ankara, Turkey Posts: 136	50p/60p PAL NTSC switchable, with better codec alow uncompressed audio. alkim. __________________ www.alkimmedya.com

December 18th, 2007, 09:58 PM	#5
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	1. Top of the list is a better viewfinder. After using the color LCD on the Sony EX1, the Canon's looks like once that can never look focused at all. The Sony has a 1920x480 LCD and it is a marvel for focusing. (I've actually sent some requests about making a hi-res color viewfinder to Canon ... let's see what they do ... Maybe I'll talk to their rep next time he's at B&H) 2. 1/2" 1920x1080 chips similar to the Sony EX1. True Progressive CCD or CMOS (although the F modes work quite well, indistinguishable from 24P, the P would just allow for no resolution loss)... 3. Embedded HD-SDI out ( a given as Nick pointed out). Or to be pompous and elitist, have dual-HD-SDI out to record to HDCAM SR or a 4:4:4 capable codec. 4. Canon to come out with an all-optical 35mm adapter similar to what JVC did for their camera. I'm sure I'll have more when I can think of it. __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

December 19th, 2007, 09:07 AM	#8
Dale Stoltzfus Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Ephrata, PA United States Posts: 257	Tapeless and, along with that, a departure from HDV. Uncompressed audio, non-mpeg, non-GOP, 4:2:2, etc. All manual lens! __________________ Mountjoy! Studios - Promotional Videography & Graphic Design MountjoyStudios.net

December 19th, 2007, 04:19 PM	#10
Benjamin Hill Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Iowa City, Iowa Posts: 670	XLRs that are independently switchable as mic/line, and the ability to use the on-board mic and an external mic simultaneously would make this a more viable camera. __________________ youtube.com/benhillmedia linkedin.com/in/benhillmedia

December 18th, 2007, 07:07 PM	#3
Steve Rosen Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Monterey, California Posts: 895	I doubt the codec will change anytime soon, we're pretty much stuck with HDV for a while - unless of course it is tapeless, adopts a whole new codec, and etc... Personally, I would opt for an improved image in the finder.. I imagine small LCDs have improved considerably in the 2 years since the H1's introduction - that has been my biggest complaint about the camera... Even though I don't use my H1 any more (it's for sale actually) I still think it's the best of the breed, and any improvement will be icing on a pretty good cake...

December 18th, 2007, 07:58 PM	#4
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	I'd like to see a better viewfinder. B/W or color...doesn't matter...just better resolution. Downcovert output options from the BNC/RCA analog output. Centerpunch 4x3 or letterbox 4x3. The A1 does this... 20x lens with iris ring ON the lens...like the 6x. Standard strap holders on the handle...so a Portabrace strap can be attached. Those small "slits" are great for a little consumer strap...but can't be easily accomodated to a professional strap.

December 19th, 2007, 08:40 AM	#7
Gabriel Berube Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Lévis, QC, Canada Posts: 53	Well, if Canon switches to 1/2" CMOS like the Sony EX1, one thing they might try with the XL-mount line would be to add a crop-factor option in the menu, pretty much like Nikon did with it's D3 DSLR. On the new D3, a full-frame DSLR, you can still use DX (smaller and lighter lenses designed for the APS-C small-CCD format many digital cams use), but you won't have the 12 mpix resolution the D3 can offer because the lens will only crop to a smaller portion of the CMOS. So all in all, you can use full-frame or DX lenses on the D3, but there's a rather major drawback to using the later. So, if Canon gets its XL-H2 to a 1/2" CMOS instead of 1/3" and they decide that it will support XL-mounts, chances are that our lenses will still be used (I'm crossing my fingers here), albeith with a crop factor that would result in a small resolution loss plus a zoom-in factor. I personnally sure hope they don't flush down the XL-mount, 'cuz its what made me go with Canon for a while, but hey, what do I know about marketing? I'm just a consumer! :-) As for what I'd like on the XL-H2, I'd really love a tapeless solution like the EX1, that would be awesome! Gabe

December 19th, 2007, 04:06 PM	#9
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	As Dale Said An HD lens which allows you to zoom and focus at the same time. Iris ring has been mentioned. Better viewfinder has been mentioned. More steps in Custom presets (ala XHA1 XHG1) Separate Auto gain for audio tracks 1 + 2 so you could run a camera mic in Auto and a Radio mic in Manual Option to record HDV 24P like the HV20.

December 19th, 2007, 06:07 PM	#11
Kevin Martorana Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lancaster, PA Posts: 250	oh...I forgot another one...since the mic was mentioned.. Give us an XLR on-board mic...not one with th elittle consumer dual mini plugs.

December 19th, 2007, 06:46 PM	#12
Kyle Prohaska Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ransomville NY Posts: 239	On top of all the other additions...a P2 slot. :P - Kyle __________________ Online Portfolio \| Feature Film on XHA1

December 19th, 2007, 07:06 PM	#13
Michael Galvan Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 775	LOL ... a P2 slot that records HDV to the card ... That's like slapping Panasonic in the face :P __________________ www.michaelgalvan.com www.screenanthology.com

December 19th, 2007, 09:54 PM	#14
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	"If they switch to half-inch chips, then it's no longer an XL, plus all of the current XL lenses wouldn't be compatible. Anything can happen, but I'm willing to bet that they stick with third-inch chips to insure backward compatibility with the existing XL line of lenses." Chris I'm inclined to agree with you on that with the exception that they have that flashing "non compatable lens" light pop up when ever you drop one of the legacy xl lenses on, I think maybe having that crop factor consideration would be a good option. I would love for canon to release an all optical 35 adapter though (even spoke to them about for a bit) Additionally the conversion out of the SD slot should be switchable, had completely forgotten about that. Seems like that could be a firmware update as well. As far as 50p and 60p I can't say that I would have much use for it, which isn't to say it shouldn't be done, I just personally wouldn't use it. The p2/expresscard thing would be pretty sweet if it was recording as .mov or editable format (without the long GOF format) so that you could then have an invtervalometer option on the camera, that would be pretty sweet. __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...