Panalook for the XL2???? at DVinfo.net

Paul Nguyen · March 5th, 2007, 04:18 PM

Hi there,
I found this forum last week and have just been approved as a member.

As a seasoned DVX user I decided to go for an XL2 late last year to use together with my DVX for multi-cam shoots (wedding ceremonies). My problem is that after countless attempts at tweaking on the XL2 I've found nothing that matches my DVX & I spend hours dumbing down the DVX footage to match the XL2.

I'm just so disappointed with the XL2 performance compared to my DVX, in particular the sloppy lens controls. Last year I tried to find a dealer who sells a 16x manual lens at a competitive price and that was completely futile.
I tried to sell the cam on e-bay last month but the bids got to half what I was expecting so I now have to learn to love it.

I noticed that the XL-H1 users have a preset to match the DVX but I was wondering if somebody had done this with their XL2...?

Cheers

Paul

Mathieu Ghekiere · March 5th, 2007, 04:33 PM

I think you should have no problem mixing them if you do a search on this board. You WILL have to dumb down the DVX, because make no mistake: the XL2 is technically the better cam of the two, as in specs.

Mike Andrade · March 5th, 2007, 07:08 PM

Here's one I used recently.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&highlight=dvx

Eric Shepherd · March 5th, 2007, 07:09 PM

The XL2 is technically better but he'll need to dumb down the DVX to match its technical betterness?

Eh?

Mathieu Ghekiere · March 6th, 2007, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Shepherd

The XL2 is technically better but he'll need to dumb down the DVX to match its technical betterness?

Eh?

If that quote was for me, I have to tell you: if my sentences aren't always perfect, it's because English isn't my native tongue. Bear with me ;-)
The XL2 has the best specs (more resolution, native 16/9,...), so if he wants to match them he will have to shoot in 4/3 and thus 'dumbing down' the XL2.

Paul Nguyen · March 6th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Because I shoot weddings and alot of the time there is insuficient light I have to dumb down the DVX footage (desaturate the colours and flatten the image.) I just hate the way the XL2 renders skin tones into a mushy pink, it's so damn hard to fix this stuff in post.

I agree 100% that the XL2 has much higher resolution than the DVX but I've come to realise that for me it is more than just resolution... it comes down to low light performance, colour rendition and camera operation and for my wedding work I find the DVX just about kills the XL2 in every aspect except resolution. Simply relying on resolution makes little difference to me because all my work gets published to DVD.

Hey Mike, thanks for the link I'm looking forward to trying it out :)

Cheers,
Paul

Joseph Andolina · March 6th, 2007, 08:26 PM

[QUOTE= I just hate the way the XL2 renders skin tones into a mushy pink, it's so damn hard to fix this stuff in post.[/QUOTE]

When I first started using my XL2, I used to see the same results you speak of with the skin tones. But through time, I've seen excellent skin tone results, very natural, true to color, not mushy as well. It took me to make sure I properly white ballance. I've been more and more excited with results everytime I use the camera. Made up a few different presets to my liking.

Love it..love it... L - O - V - E IT :)

Joe

Mathieu Ghekiere · March 7th, 2007, 08:45 AM

As Joseph said, you have more then enough user presets you can change in the XL2 to create any look you want.
Again, they are all on these boards, but take the time to search.

Paul Nguyen · March 7th, 2007, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph Andolina

When I first started using my XL2, I used to see the same results you speak of with the skin tones. But through time, I've seen excellent skin tone results, very natural, true to color, not mushy as well.
Joe

Hey Joe, do you find that the XL2 only exhibits these problems when you use gain?

Joseph Andolina · March 7th, 2007, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Nguyen

Hey Joe, do you find that the XL2 only exhibits these problems when you use gain?

Not really. Even if I use +6db gain, it doesn;t duplicate what I used to see when I first had the camera. I still get nice skin tones, natural looking true colors, etc... at least what I perceive to be so. I'll try and upload a 2meg 320X220 .mov of short clips from raw footage of a music video I've worked on.

Joseph Andolina · March 7th, 2007, 09:46 PM

well I tried uploading the file, but it keeps failing. have no idea why. it's a quicktime .mov, and it's only 2.1 mb. supposed to be able to do up to 4megs.

Andy Joyce · March 11th, 2007, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Nguyen

Because I shoot weddings and alot of the time there is insuficient light I have to dumb down the DVX footage (desaturate the colours and flatten the image.) I just hate the way the XL2 renders skin tones into a mushy pink, it's so damn hard to fix this stuff in post.

I agree 100% that the XL2 has much higher resolution than the DVX but I've come to realise that for me it is more than just resolution... it comes down to low light performance, colour rendition and camera operation and for my wedding work I find the DVX just about kills the XL2 in every aspect except resolution.

Paul

I went with the XL2 for the lens options and the 16:9 native stuff.

However I find that I made the right choice for other reasons. The DVX seems too "poppy" out of the box and the colors look very unnatural (yellow, pink, and green). The XL2 does need to be tweaked to get the right look, but then again what camera doesn't? You dont see Varicams or CineAltas shooting perfect scenes right out of the box. Anyway, I always thought that most folks shoot flat and do matching and correction in post. Why doctor your footage in camera when you have to do it later? That would mess up the little latitude that video has.

Just my 2 cents...

Paul Nguyen · March 12th, 2007, 03:38 PM

I don't know... maybe I just like the poppy colours of the DVX.
Anyhow, during the weekend I came to the inevitable realisation that I'd have to tweak the DVX settings to match the XL2 instead of the other way around and BY JOVE I THINK I'VE DONE IT!!

I'll post the DVX settings here later if anyone's interested.

:)

Andy Joyce · March 12th, 2007, 04:49 PM

Nice work. Please post the settings.

Paul Nguyen · March 14th, 2007, 03:39 PM

Here's my DVX settings to match the XL2.

Detail Level: +3
V Detail Level: 0
Detail Coring: +7
Chroma Level: -3
Chroma Phase: -3
Colour Temp: +1
Master Ped: 0
A. IrisLevel: 0
Gamma: Cinelike V
Knee: Auto
Matrix: Cinelike
Skin Tone Dtl: Off
V Detail Freq: Thin
Progressive: Off

Although I've yet to try this on a paying job, my tests in the office seem to show much better compatibility with the XL2. I'd love to hear comments from anyone who has tried these or has any improvements.

Cheers

March 5th, 2007, 04:18 PM	#1
Paul Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, NSW Australia Posts: 31	Panalook for the XL2???? Hi there, I found this forum last week and have just been approved as a member. As a seasoned DVX user I decided to go for an XL2 late last year to use together with my DVX for multi-cam shoots (wedding ceremonies). My problem is that after countless attempts at tweaking on the XL2 I've found nothing that matches my DVX & I spend hours dumbing down the DVX footage to match the XL2. I'm just so disappointed with the XL2 performance compared to my DVX, in particular the sloppy lens controls. Last year I tried to find a dealer who sells a 16x manual lens at a competitive price and that was completely futile. I tried to sell the cam on e-bay last month but the bids got to half what I was expecting so I now have to learn to love it. I noticed that the XL-H1 users have a preset to match the DVX but I was wondering if somebody had done this with their XL2...? Cheers Paul

March 5th, 2007, 04:33 PM	#2
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	I think you should have no problem mixing them if you do a search on this board. You WILL have to dumb down the DVX, because make no mistake: the XL2 is technically the better cam of the two, as in specs. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

March 5th, 2007, 07:08 PM	#3
Mike Andrade Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 136	Here's one I used recently. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&highlight=dvx __________________ Mike A

March 7th, 2007, 08:45 AM	#8
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	As Joseph said, you have more then enough user presets you can change in the XL2 to create any look you want. Again, they are all on these boards, but take the time to search. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

March 12th, 2007, 04:49 PM	#14
Andy Joyce Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 61	Nice work. Please post the settings. __________________ ----------------------------------- XL2: power to go, quality to impress

March 5th, 2007, 07:09 PM	#4
Eric Shepherd Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 404	The XL2 is technically better but he'll need to dumb down the DVX to match its technical betterness? Eh?

March 6th, 2007, 03:48 PM	#6
Paul Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, NSW Australia Posts: 31	Because I shoot weddings and alot of the time there is insuficient light I have to dumb down the DVX footage (desaturate the colours and flatten the image.) I just hate the way the XL2 renders skin tones into a mushy pink, it's so damn hard to fix this stuff in post. I agree 100% that the XL2 has much higher resolution than the DVX but I've come to realise that for me it is more than just resolution... it comes down to low light performance, colour rendition and camera operation and for my wedding work I find the DVX just about kills the XL2 in every aspect except resolution. Simply relying on resolution makes little difference to me because all my work gets published to DVD. Hey Mike, thanks for the link I'm looking forward to trying it out :) Cheers, Paul

March 6th, 2007, 08:26 PM	#7
Joseph Andolina Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 178	[QUOTE= I just hate the way the XL2 renders skin tones into a mushy pink, it's so damn hard to fix this stuff in post.[/QUOTE] When I first started using my XL2, I used to see the same results you speak of with the skin tones. But through time, I've seen excellent skin tone results, very natural, true to color, not mushy as well. It took me to make sure I properly white ballance. I've been more and more excited with results everytime I use the camera. Made up a few different presets to my liking. Love it..love it... L - O - V - E IT :) Joe

March 7th, 2007, 09:46 PM	#11
Joseph Andolina Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Everett, WA Posts: 178	well I tried uploading the file, but it keeps failing. have no idea why. it's a quicktime .mov, and it's only 2.1 mb. supposed to be able to do up to 4megs.

March 12th, 2007, 03:38 PM	#13
Paul Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, NSW Australia Posts: 31	I don't know... maybe I just like the poppy colours of the DVX. Anyhow, during the weekend I came to the inevitable realisation that I'd have to tweak the DVX settings to match the XL2 instead of the other way around and BY JOVE I THINK I'VE DONE IT!! I'll post the DVX settings here later if anyone's interested. :)

March 14th, 2007, 03:39 PM	#15
Paul Nguyen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Fairfield, NSW Australia Posts: 31	Here's my DVX settings to match the XL2. Detail Level: +3 V Detail Level: 0 Detail Coring: +7 Chroma Level: -3 Chroma Phase: -3 Colour Temp: +1 Master Ped: 0 A. IrisLevel: 0 Gamma: Cinelike V Knee: Auto Matrix: Cinelike Skin Tone Dtl: Off V Detail Freq: Thin Progressive: Off Although I've yet to try this on a paying job, my tests in the office seem to show much better compatibility with the XL2. I'd love to hear comments from anyone who has tried these or has any improvements. Cheers