capture device at DVinfo.net

Ray Coy · July 31st, 2006, 03:32 AM

If possible I would like some clarification on the capture device issue. is it best not to use the xl2 at all? how much use would be damaging?

will ANY minidv camera with dv out be sufficient, with no loss of quality?
i understand a deck would be better for speed etc.

any reccomendations (uk) for a cheap camera for this purpose.

Many thanks in advance

Jarrod Whaley · July 31st, 2006, 12:18 PM

It's perfectly OK to use the XL2 as a capture device. If it weren't, then there would be no VCR function. Most people, however, choose to capture from another camera (or deck) to keep wear on the XL2's heads to a minimum. There is no readily quotable number of hours of use that will be bad for your tape heads. Less is better, and that's about all anyone can say.

And as for your second question: yes, you can use any mini-DV cam, no matter how cheap it might be. DV is DV is DV, no matter which camera shoots it. Yes, some cameras (like the XL2) produce video that looks better than others, but the DV format is based upon an extremely rigid set of specifications. It's the same data no matter what camera it gets captured from, and that goes for stuff shot at any frame rate, in any aspect ratio, with any camera settings whatsoever.

If you just want a cam to use as a deck, I'd just recommend picking up the cheapest mini-DV cam you can find. If it breaks, it's no big deal to get another, and remember that you can always capture from the XL2 in the meantime.

Ray Coy · July 31st, 2006, 02:41 PM

many thanks for that

Vipul Amin · August 1st, 2006, 12:23 PM

Also look at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72171 to confirm or to support what Jarrod Whaley said.

Few days ago I also checked with Canon, and the rep told me that there should not be any differance in quality if you play it in minidv cam vs XL2.

Though, friend of mine has noticed a difference in quality when it was played on Sony minidv Cam vs XL2. According to him, he found XL2 better quality.

Have I tried it? No...I have not tried it yet. I might try it sometimes soon. I will try to post my findings..

Brendon Whateley · August 1st, 2006, 03:37 PM

If you are talking about using the video output instead of the firewire output, then I think the deck could make a big difference. I think people have been talking about firewire output which is digital output, conforming to the DV spec. The analog video output would depend on the output circuits of the deck, which could be different.

So, if you take a computer, connect it using firewire to various decks and camcorders, the result will be identical. If you hook the decks to a monitor, the results may not be the same.

Charles Penn · August 14th, 2006, 10:24 AM

I've been grappling with this and so far, I haven't been able to get any help/ clarity. On the one hand, I'm told any DV cam will due. I'm leaning toward the Canon Allure 80. But I'm getting conflicting feedback. The pro guy at B&H said you can't get the same quality level using a consumer cam and it won't read timecode.

The Canon rep said there should be no problem. Can someone please add some clarity to this for me? I don't want to waste $300. Thanks.

Chuck

Chris Hurd · August 14th, 2006, 10:40 AM

Hi Charles, I rec'd your email about this and will answer here in public.

First there is no such Canon camcorder model called "Allure" nor anything currently using "80" in the model number. Right now there are four consumer DV camcorders from Canon. These are the ZR500, ZR600, ZR700 and Elura 100. You might consider the ZR500 for $300 or the Elura 100 for $400 as a playback deck, either one will do. I can't recommend the ZR600 or 700 as their added costs give you nothing in return if you're just using it as a playback deck.

Using a consumer DV camcorder as a playback deck will NOT affect the output quality. Hope this helps,

Nick Weeks · August 14th, 2006, 02:47 PM

I personally use a $150 cam I found on ebay, JVC something, it was advertised as new, but the camera functions didn't work at all, it would record to tape, but no video on LCD or tape... but the playback works fine. I use it to capture footage from my VX2100 and XL1s with no trouble, and no loss of quality.

I figured at $150 it ws pretty disposable and I could just ebay another one

I've seen a lot of these cheap on ebay for sale in the UK area

Charles Penn · August 15th, 2006, 08:42 AM

Chris/ guys: thanks for your input. I stand corrected on the "Allure." You are indeed, correct, Chris ... it is the Elura 80 (there is an '80' model but the Canon rep told me that all of the Elura models are being phased out). The Elura 80 is being discounted. I ordered it yesterday from B&H for $289.

All I wanted to know was, is there going to be any qualitative changes to the video/audio using the consumer cam to to transport video shot on the XL2 to my hard drive for editing purposes. It's probably a stupid question but I'm not so vain as to worry about that -- particularly since there are many extremely knowledgeable people frequenting this site.

I can't thank Chris and company enough for this jewel of a Web site.

Chuck

Brett OBourke · August 15th, 2006, 11:44 AM

I picked up an Canon Elura 80 from B&H yesterday as well in order not to use the XL2 as a deck anymore. Came to like $330 or so with the 2 year extended warranty -- cheaper than most decks and gives the wife something to shoot the baby with, as she won't go anywhere near the XL2.

My understanding from reading this message board is there should be no degradation of image quality using the cheap camera as a capture device.

BO'B

Tommy Haupfear · August 29th, 2006, 05:06 PM

I'm using a RCA MiniDV cam that set me back a whopping $70 on eBay and its actually a great little cam with an anamorphic widescreen mode and a 3.0" LCD. Its a CC9370 if that helps.

July 31st, 2006, 03:32 AM	#1
Ray Coy Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: hull england Posts: 50	capture device If possible I would like some clarification on the capture device issue. is it best not to use the xl2 at all? how much use would be damaging? will ANY minidv camera with dv out be sufficient, with no loss of quality? i understand a deck would be better for speed etc. any reccomendations (uk) for a cheap camera for this purpose. Many thanks in advance

July 31st, 2006, 12:18 PM	#2
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	It's perfectly OK to use the XL2 as a capture device. If it weren't, then there would be no VCR function. Most people, however, choose to capture from another camera (or deck) to keep wear on the XL2's heads to a minimum. There is no readily quotable number of hours of use that will be bad for your tape heads. Less is better, and that's about all anyone can say. And as for your second question: yes, you can use any mini-DV cam, no matter how cheap it might be. DV is DV is DV, no matter which camera shoots it. Yes, some cameras (like the XL2) produce video that looks better than others, but the DV format is based upon an extremely rigid set of specifications. It's the same data no matter what camera it gets captured from, and that goes for stuff shot at any frame rate, in any aspect ratio, with any camera settings whatsoever. If you just want a cam to use as a deck, I'd just recommend picking up the cheapest mini-DV cam you can find. If it breaks, it's no big deal to get another, and remember that you can always capture from the XL2 in the meantime. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

August 1st, 2006, 12:23 PM	#4
Vipul Amin New Boot Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Hanover Park, IL Posts: 22	Also look at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=72171 to confirm or to support what Jarrod Whaley said. Few days ago I also checked with Canon, and the rep told me that there should not be any differance in quality if you play it in minidv cam vs XL2. Though, friend of mine has noticed a difference in quality when it was played on Sony minidv Cam vs XL2. According to him, he found XL2 better quality. Have I tried it? No...I have not tried it yet. I might try it sometimes soon. I will try to post my findings.. __________________ vam

August 14th, 2006, 10:40 AM	#7
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Charles, I rec'd your email about this and will answer here in public. First there is no such Canon camcorder model called "Allure" nor anything currently using "80" in the model number. Right now there are four consumer DV camcorders from Canon. These are the ZR500, ZR600, ZR700 and Elura 100. You might consider the ZR500 for $300 or the Elura 100 for $400 as a playback deck, either one will do. I can't recommend the ZR600 or 700 as their added costs give you nothing in return if you're just using it as a playback deck. Using a consumer DV camcorder as a playback deck will NOT affect the output quality. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

August 15th, 2006, 11:44 AM	#10
Brett OBourke Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	Elura 80 I picked up an Canon Elura 80 from B&H yesterday as well in order not to use the XL2 as a deck anymore. Came to like $330 or so with the 2 year extended warranty -- cheaper than most decks and gives the wife something to shoot the baby with, as she won't go anywhere near the XL2. My understanding from reading this message board is there should be no degradation of image quality using the cheap camera as a capture device. BO'B

July 31st, 2006, 02:41 PM	#3
Ray Coy Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: hull england Posts: 50	many thanks for that

August 1st, 2006, 03:37 PM	#5
Brendon Whateley Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Fremont, CA Posts: 59	If you are talking about using the video output instead of the firewire output, then I think the deck could make a big difference. I think people have been talking about firewire output which is digital output, conforming to the DV spec. The analog video output would depend on the output circuits of the deck, which could be different. So, if you take a computer, connect it using firewire to various decks and camcorders, the result will be identical. If you hook the decks to a monitor, the results may not be the same.

August 14th, 2006, 10:24 AM	#6
Charles Penn Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 103	I've been grappling with this and so far, I haven't been able to get any help/ clarity. On the one hand, I'm told any DV cam will due. I'm leaning toward the Canon Allure 80. But I'm getting conflicting feedback. The pro guy at B&H said you can't get the same quality level using a consumer cam and it won't read timecode. The Canon rep said there should be no problem. Can someone please add some clarity to this for me? I don't want to waste $300. Thanks. Chuck

August 14th, 2006, 02:47 PM	#8
Nick Weeks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL USA Posts: 722	I personally use a $150 cam I found on ebay, JVC something, it was advertised as new, but the camera functions didn't work at all, it would record to tape, but no video on LCD or tape... but the playback works fine. I use it to capture footage from my VX2100 and XL1s with no trouble, and no loss of quality. I figured at $150 it ws pretty disposable and I could just ebay another one I've seen a lot of these cheap on ebay for sale in the UK area

August 15th, 2006, 08:42 AM	#9
Charles Penn Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 103	Chris/ guys: thanks for your input. I stand corrected on the "Allure." You are indeed, correct, Chris ... it is the Elura 80 (there is an '80' model but the Canon rep told me that all of the Elura models are being phased out). The Elura 80 is being discounted. I ordered it yesterday from B&H for $289. All I wanted to know was, is there going to be any qualitative changes to the video/audio using the consumer cam to to transport video shot on the XL2 to my hard drive for editing purposes. It's probably a stupid question but I'm not so vain as to worry about that -- particularly since there are many extremely knowledgeable people frequenting this site. I can't thank Chris and company enough for this jewel of a Web site. Chuck

August 29th, 2006, 05:06 PM	#11
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	I'm using a RCA MiniDV cam that set me back a whopping $70 on eBay and its actually a great little cam with an anamorphic widescreen mode and a 3.0" LCD. Its a CC9370 if that helps.