XL2 and the Future

Kevin Shaw · February 23rd, 2006, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ferling

I have a 30k budget, so HDV is within my reach. I was even thinking about simply capturing HDV and edit in SD. However, after reading up on this HDV forum, I'm inclined to believe that using and setting up an HDV camera is more suited to films, and not run and gun stuff found in live events and corporate shoots.

I'm using both Sony HDV and Canon DV video cameras for weddings and other events, and HDV works fine in most circumstances. I think the Sonys tend to underexpose compared to the Canons when run on auto, and they're roughly a stop less sensitive in poor lighting, but when used properly they deliver an impressive image which makes me reluctant to keep using the Canons. As I've noted in other posts, I can definitely see a difference in terms of image quality between HDV and DV source on my HDTV display, even when both sources are delivered at SD resolution. Today's HDV cameras aren't perfect, but they are usable for 'run and gun' work.

Matthew Nayman · February 23rd, 2006, 02:10 PM

Just to clarify, I am not putting down HD in anyway shape or form. I think it is definatly the wave of the future, and the image quality is stunning. My only points are that HDV is not HD and the supply still outweighs the demand.

Comapnies are pushing for all this HD but it isn't a reality yet. Yes many hsows are shot HD, but I only know one person who owns an HD TV and my famnily works in broadcasting (my father has been a higher up at the CBC for 30 years). He agrees that HD is a ways away.

As for HDV... unless you are going out to a deck, it's not quite worth it.

If you are looking to keep your bases covered for the next few years, think about an Xl2 (I am biased, no doubt), although the HVX is quite astounding. If it weren't for the P2 cards I might get one.

Mark Bournes · February 23rd, 2006, 02:21 PM

Unless you're a large production company with million dollar clients there is no need to jump to hd. Yes it's coming but it wont be the "standard" for years to come. I would wait until you either get a high demand for it or everyone in the industry switches over for good. I still shoot with my xl1 and get plenty of business. Most of my clients still want things shot in 4/3, so keep the xl2 and keep shooting.

Mark Bournes
Shark Video Productions

Henry Cho · February 23rd, 2006, 02:57 PM

seriously, if history is any indication, hd cameras two years from now will be markedly improved over today's offerings, and workflows will be time-tested and proven. hd/hdv is a very viable format now, but if YOU don't need hd today, the xl2 is a fine choice.

Matthew Nayman · February 23rd, 2006, 05:52 PM

Well put Henry,

Always nice and concise.

Richard Alvarez · February 23rd, 2006, 07:28 PM

I'm with Henry on this. If you don't have a pressing need, then SD is good for now. HD (of some format) will be the future. Personally, I'm not convinced that HDV isn't an 'interim' format HD. In three years time, HDV might be as dead as people are claiming SD is today.

My xl2 purchased a year ago has paid for itself, so I'm going to sit out the HD rush for probably another year... maybe two.

(Besides, I was all drooling over the H1, and now I'm waiting to drool over RED.)

Josh Bass · February 23rd, 2006, 07:50 PM

I've been thinking about an XL2.

I bought my XL1s some time ago, more as a super nice toy than a business thing. I'm certainly not gonna get an HD cam any time soon, but maybe a nicer SD cam wouldn't be so unreasonable. That being said. . .

How much could one expect to get for a used XL1s with stock lens? (Let's say it has somewhere around 100 hours. It has NOT been used that much, considering I've had it since '02).

How much could one aim to pay for the body, only, of the XL2?

Can the XL2's image be made to look like the DVX series'?

Richard Alvarez · February 23rd, 2006, 09:17 PM

Josh,

Check out past auction prices for the xls on Ebay, to get an idea of the going market price.

It's funny, I shoot with the xl2 and the 16x manual lens. I've been looking at getting a 3x wide. I've seen a couple of xl1s go with a 3x lens attached, for the price of a NEW 3x lens. SO basically, I could get the lens and a spare xl body! Have also been looking at picking up either the old 16xii or the new 20xii for the OIS factor, but again I can almost pick one up WITH an xl body attached for the price of a new one.

Josh Bass · February 23rd, 2006, 09:29 PM

Ouch. . .that blows. Cause the XL2 body only is still like $3500 new, ain't it?

Richard Alvarez · February 23rd, 2006, 10:11 PM

Quick check on past ebay auctions, looks like a couple went for 2200 and 2300. A check here on Craigslist has two Xl1 (non s ) for 1550 and 2000. So figure it from there.

Josh Bass · February 23rd, 2006, 11:12 PM

XL1s's went for those prices? That's not that bad. . .about what I would've wanted. When you said you'd seen 'em go for the price of a new 3X lens, that sounded bad ($1200ish, no?). That's reasonable.

Kevin Shaw · February 24th, 2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Alvarez

I'm not convinced that HDV isn't an 'interim' format HD. In three years time, HDV might be as dead as people are claiming SD is today.

In three years it'll be surprising if there's much use of SD video cameras for professional purposes, but today's HDV cameras will continue to be useful well into the HD future. That's the basic reason to go HD now if you're in the market for a new camera anyway; if you don't have an immediate need for new equipment then it makes sense to wait and see what else is coming.

James Taylor · February 24th, 2006, 04:01 PM

What are you using to uprez the xl2 footage?

Thanks,

-James

February 23rd, 2006, 07:50 PM	#22
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	I've been thinking about an XL2. I bought my XL1s some time ago, more as a super nice toy than a business thing. I'm certainly not gonna get an HD cam any time soon, but maybe a nicer SD cam wouldn't be so unreasonable. That being said. . . How much could one expect to get for a used XL1s with stock lens? (Let's say it has somewhere around 100 hours. It has NOT been used that much, considering I've had it since '02). How much could one aim to pay for the body, only, of the XL2? Can the XL2's image be made to look like the DVX series'? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 23rd, 2006, 09:29 PM	#24
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Ouch. . .that blows. Cause the XL2 body only is still like $3500 new, ain't it? __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 23rd, 2006, 11:12 PM	#26
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	XL1s's went for those prices? That's not that bad. . .about what I would've wanted. When you said you'd seen 'em go for the price of a new 3X lens, that sounded bad ($1200ish, no?). That's reasonable. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

February 23rd, 2006, 02:10 PM	#17
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Just to clarify, I am not putting down HD in anyway shape or form. I think it is definatly the wave of the future, and the image quality is stunning. My only points are that HDV is not HD and the supply still outweighs the demand. Comapnies are pushing for all this HD but it isn't a reality yet. Yes many hsows are shot HD, but I only know one person who owns an HD TV and my famnily works in broadcasting (my father has been a higher up at the CBC for 30 years). He agrees that HD is a ways away. As for HDV... unless you are going out to a deck, it's not quite worth it. If you are looking to keep your bases covered for the next few years, think about an Xl2 (I am biased, no doubt), although the HVX is quite astounding. If it weren't for the P2 cards I might get one.

February 23rd, 2006, 02:21 PM	#18
Mark Bournes Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Jupiter, FL Posts: 565	Unless you're a large production company with million dollar clients there is no need to jump to hd. Yes it's coming but it wont be the "standard" for years to come. I would wait until you either get a high demand for it or everyone in the industry switches over for good. I still shoot with my xl1 and get plenty of business. Most of my clients still want things shot in 4/3, so keep the xl2 and keep shooting. Mark Bournes Shark Video Productions

February 23rd, 2006, 02:57 PM	#19
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	seriously, if history is any indication, hd cameras two years from now will be markedly improved over today's offerings, and workflows will be time-tested and proven. hd/hdv is a very viable format now, but if YOU don't need hd today, the xl2 is a fine choice.

February 23rd, 2006, 05:52 PM	#20
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Well put Henry, Always nice and concise.

February 23rd, 2006, 07:28 PM	#21
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I'm with Henry on this. If you don't have a pressing need, then SD is good for now. HD (of some format) will be the future. Personally, I'm not convinced that HDV isn't an 'interim' format HD. In three years time, HDV might be as dead as people are claiming SD is today. My xl2 purchased a year ago has paid for itself, so I'm going to sit out the HD rush for probably another year... maybe two. (Besides, I was all drooling over the H1, and now I'm waiting to drool over RED.)

February 23rd, 2006, 09:17 PM	#23
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Josh, Check out past auction prices for the xls on Ebay, to get an idea of the going market price. It's funny, I shoot with the xl2 and the 16x manual lens. I've been looking at getting a 3x wide. I've seen a couple of xl1s go with a 3x lens attached, for the price of a NEW 3x lens. SO basically, I could get the lens and a spare xl body! Have also been looking at picking up either the old 16xii or the new 20xii for the OIS factor, but again I can almost pick one up WITH an xl body attached for the price of a new one.

February 23rd, 2006, 10:11 PM	#25
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Quick check on past ebay auctions, looks like a couple went for 2200 and 2300. A check here on Craigslist has two Xl1 (non s ) for 1550 and 2000. So figure it from there.

February 24th, 2006, 04:01 PM	#28
James Taylor Tourist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3	What are you using to uprez the xl2 footage? Thanks, -James