Micro35 and XL2 at DVinfo.net

Matthew Nayman · January 8th, 2006, 11:09 AM

I have recently been contemplating buying the Micro35 from Redrock inc for my XL2. I am curious if anyone has used it and how they overcame the inverted picture problem with the viewfinder.

Also, did the rails interfere with handheld work?

Matt

Henry Cho · January 8th, 2006, 12:01 PM

matthew,

there are a host of lcd monitors that will do an xy flip. this seems like the most viable solution to me, as the magnet trick seems dangerous and an israeli arm is half the price of a new monitor...

check out the datavideo tlm-70, ikan7000, ikan9000, nebtek neb64h, nebtek 64h pro, tv one LM-681M, tv one LM-401, and lilliput lcds. they all flip on the X and Y.

hope that helps.

Matthew Nayman · January 8th, 2006, 04:01 PM

Is there anyway the SDK could be used to glip the monitor image? That would be nifty!

But yeah, noone actually uses the SDK. Sad really.

Anyhoo, The isralie arm is interesting. My only beef is that I like the ENG style of viewfinder as it is less fatigue on the eye.

Henry Cho · January 8th, 2006, 04:18 PM

that really would be great.

redrock has reported some people have had success opening the evf and carefully flipping the monitor inside, but i'm not going there.

Matthew Nayman · January 8th, 2006, 04:40 PM

Yeah, count me out. Ugh... then if I want to shoot normal I gotta flip it back around...

Devin Doyle · January 8th, 2006, 06:12 PM

The easiest solution I've read is just to flip your EVF and put it on the right side of the camera body, effectively inverting the image vertically and horizontally. It may take some time to get used to operating from that side, but it is a quick fix.

Matthew Nayman · January 9th, 2006, 09:16 AM

I do like the simplicity of your idea Devin, however, I have been doing hand-held work for several years now (betacam SP and such), and am phenominally right handed (left is prettymuch useless). I can't honestly see operating the XL2 on my left shoulder :P.

I suppose no one manufactures a lefthanded viewfinder for the cam which could then be flipped over...

Andrew C. Stewart · January 9th, 2006, 12:28 PM

I have an XL2 and a M2 (micro 35)...

I use both an LCD monitor and the EVF on the right side. If you plan on spending a lot of money on a monitor then you cna get one with high enough resolution for adequate focus and color reproduction...otherwise you will need the EVF for focus for sure.

I spent like $300 on the Xenarc 700YV. I like it a lot. I still go off the EVF for focus though.

Matthew Nayman · January 9th, 2006, 06:48 PM

How do you like the Micro 35 Andrew? Worth the cash? What lenses are you using?

Zia Basith · January 10th, 2006, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew Nayman

I have recently been contemplating buying the Micro35 from Redrock inc for my XL2. I am curious if anyone has used it and how they overcame the inverted picture problem with the viewfinder.

Also, did the rails interfere with handheld work?

Matt

Hey Matthew,
I have an XL2 also and I've been thinking about the M2 myself. Have you seen the sample movies on redrock website. They look amazing. What I'm wondering is if they used the PL mounts for such as arri lenses, other High end lenses to get that look. Or did they use SLR mounts with still camera lenses? Can the SLR Mounts with still camera lens give you that look we see in there sample movies?
What I also wonder is that with the M2 adapter, would you use the canon 3x wide angle lens or just use the XL2 20x lens and put a still camera wide angle lens on top of M2 adapter?

Zia

Matthew Nayman · January 10th, 2006, 09:08 AM

I was wondering ther same thing. The 3x would certianly make the rig smaller and lighter. Any word on whether you need the 20x in place or if the 3x will do?

I think the look the achieved could easily be achieved with Nikon or Canon SLR lenses. Cinema lenses would probably give a warmer look, but the fact is both record to a 35mm frame (although i believe that Technically speaking, a still 35mm frame is larger than a motion picture frame, due to the fact that an SLR runs the film sideways while a motion picture cam runs it top to bottom).

However, I believe certain Panavision cams (correct me if I am wrong) do run the film sideways resulting in a larger frame (back in the day when optical effects created great generational losses in quality).

Therefore, I would think an SLR lens would provide a similar look to some Panavision lenses, and may infact provide a shallower DOF.

Once again, please anyone feel free to correct me here.

Andrew C. Stewart · January 10th, 2006, 10:21 AM

Hey guys I have the M2 and XL2 (with the 20x lens). I use Nikon lenses with the adapter and have been FLOORED by the results. There were a few issues early with some hotspots and ghosting caused by the CineScreen, but all new units are being shipped with a kick ass CineScreen that completely eliminates that.

The images are crisp and the DOF is PHENOMINAL.

I bought an external LCD (Xenarc 700YV) for around $300 basically for composition (not reliable for focus and color). It works just fine. For critical focus I use the EVF.

I HOPE to have some samples up this weekend. We'll see. Our post guy just moved back to town and is getting settled in with his equipment. This weekend's goal is to shoot some test footage, get it flipped and color corrected, and post it online.

Please look into the adapter. The guys at RedRock are great. And they have other affordable projects coming soon (followfocus, mattebox, etc)

Henry Cho · January 10th, 2006, 10:55 AM

from everything i've read, the adapter will work perfectly with the standard 20x auto lens, since all you're using the lens for is to focus on the ground glass in the m2 adapter. the lens in FRONT of the m2 is the lens that will determine framing and angle of view. also, just to add, nikon lenses on the nikon mount seem to be very popular for folks using the m2 because of their availability and price on the second-hand market.

Matthew Nayman · January 10th, 2006, 11:10 AM

I know the 20X will work, but will the 3X? If I could save that length and weight I would be more inclined to buy the Micro35

Henry Cho · January 10th, 2006, 12:15 PM

the 3x probably wouldn't work because the wide angle of view would pick up a lot of the adapter in the picture. even if it did, how much room and weight are you expecting to save? the 3x is still a relatively large, hefty piece of glass, and, if you don't own it already, it's expensive.

January 8th, 2006, 11:09 AM	#1
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Micro35 and XL2 I have recently been contemplating buying the Micro35 from Redrock inc for my XL2. I am curious if anyone has used it and how they overcame the inverted picture problem with the viewfinder. Also, did the rails interfere with handheld work? Matt

January 8th, 2006, 06:12 PM	#6
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	The easiest solution I've read is just to flip your EVF and put it on the right side of the camera body, effectively inverting the image vertically and horizontally. It may take some time to get used to operating from that side, but it is a quick fix. __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

January 8th, 2006, 12:01 PM	#2
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	matthew, there are a host of lcd monitors that will do an xy flip. this seems like the most viable solution to me, as the magnet trick seems dangerous and an israeli arm is half the price of a new monitor... check out the datavideo tlm-70, ikan7000, ikan9000, nebtek neb64h, nebtek 64h pro, tv one LM-681M, tv one LM-401, and lilliput lcds. they all flip on the X and Y. hope that helps.

January 8th, 2006, 04:01 PM	#3
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Is there anyway the SDK could be used to glip the monitor image? That would be nifty! But yeah, noone actually uses the SDK. Sad really. Anyhoo, The isralie arm is interesting. My only beef is that I like the ENG style of viewfinder as it is less fatigue on the eye.

January 8th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#4
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	that really would be great. redrock has reported some people have had success opening the evf and carefully flipping the monitor inside, but i'm not going there.

January 8th, 2006, 04:40 PM	#5
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Yeah, count me out. Ugh... then if I want to shoot normal I gotta flip it back around...

January 9th, 2006, 09:16 AM	#7
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I do like the simplicity of your idea Devin, however, I have been doing hand-held work for several years now (betacam SP and such), and am phenominally right handed (left is prettymuch useless). I can't honestly see operating the XL2 on my left shoulder :P. I suppose no one manufactures a lefthanded viewfinder for the cam which could then be flipped over...

January 9th, 2006, 12:28 PM	#8
Andrew C. Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ponca City, OK Posts: 61	I have an XL2 and a M2 (micro 35)... I use both an LCD monitor and the EVF on the right side. If you plan on spending a lot of money on a monitor then you cna get one with high enough resolution for adequate focus and color reproduction...otherwise you will need the EVF for focus for sure. I spent like $300 on the Xenarc 700YV. I like it a lot. I still go off the EVF for focus though.

January 9th, 2006, 06:48 PM	#9
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	How do you like the Micro 35 Andrew? Worth the cash? What lenses are you using?

January 10th, 2006, 09:08 AM	#11
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I was wondering ther same thing. The 3x would certianly make the rig smaller and lighter. Any word on whether you need the 20x in place or if the 3x will do? I think the look the achieved could easily be achieved with Nikon or Canon SLR lenses. Cinema lenses would probably give a warmer look, but the fact is both record to a 35mm frame (although i believe that Technically speaking, a still 35mm frame is larger than a motion picture frame, due to the fact that an SLR runs the film sideways while a motion picture cam runs it top to bottom). However, I believe certain Panavision cams (correct me if I am wrong) do run the film sideways resulting in a larger frame (back in the day when optical effects created great generational losses in quality). Therefore, I would think an SLR lens would provide a similar look to some Panavision lenses, and may infact provide a shallower DOF. Once again, please anyone feel free to correct me here.

January 10th, 2006, 10:21 AM	#12
Andrew C. Stewart Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ponca City, OK Posts: 61	Hey guys I have the M2 and XL2 (with the 20x lens). I use Nikon lenses with the adapter and have been FLOORED by the results. There were a few issues early with some hotspots and ghosting caused by the CineScreen, but all new units are being shipped with a kick ass CineScreen that completely eliminates that. The images are crisp and the DOF is PHENOMINAL. I bought an external LCD (Xenarc 700YV) for around $300 basically for composition (not reliable for focus and color). It works just fine. For critical focus I use the EVF. I HOPE to have some samples up this weekend. We'll see. Our post guy just moved back to town and is getting settled in with his equipment. This weekend's goal is to shoot some test footage, get it flipped and color corrected, and post it online. Please look into the adapter. The guys at RedRock are great. And they have other affordable projects coming soon (followfocus, mattebox, etc)

January 10th, 2006, 10:55 AM	#13
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	from everything i've read, the adapter will work perfectly with the standard 20x auto lens, since all you're using the lens for is to focus on the ground glass in the m2 adapter. the lens in FRONT of the m2 is the lens that will determine framing and angle of view. also, just to add, nikon lenses on the nikon mount seem to be very popular for folks using the m2 because of their availability and price on the second-hand market.

January 10th, 2006, 11:10 AM	#14
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	I know the 20X will work, but will the 3X? If I could save that length and weight I would be more inclined to buy the Micro35

January 10th, 2006, 12:15 PM	#15
Henry Cho Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 516	the 3x probably wouldn't work because the wide angle of view would pick up a lot of the adapter in the picture. even if it did, how much room and weight are you expecting to save? the 3x is still a relatively large, hefty piece of glass, and, if you don't own it already, it's expensive.