Canon XL1 Tape rattle and Image artifacts

[Johannes Balzer]

Hello DVInfo People,

I'm new to the forum as well as I'm new to AV equipment.
I'm interested primarily in old computers and I wanted to start documenting my endeavors with them using equipment that can be considered vintage but also at the same time is fairly reliable and produces an acceptable picture quality.
So after a couple of days of reading, never held a camcorder in my hands in my entire life before except a smartphone, I chose the Canon XL1.
Well and now I got hold of one but it seems to have an issue with the tape mechanism.
When I shoot some footage, I can hear the headdrum's hum and every 2-3 seconds there is a very silent crunching noise.
And when I play it back, the same noise can be heared (it is very silent though) and it coincides with artifacts in video and sound appearing in the footage.

Also I noticed when fast forwarding the mechanism sounds fine, but when rewinding it sounds like someone poured a bucket of sand in a coffee grinder.

Since I'm not completely hamfisted I started taking it apart, because well why not. Can be a good opportunity to give everything a good clean....
Then I noticed that the pinch roller to the right of the drum (not sure if it is the correct term... it is the one that pulls the tape out of the cassette around the drum) is wiggly and very loose, while the other one on the left of the drum is fairly stable.

Does anyone here know their miniDV mechanisms and is willing to tell me a bit about them?

Greetings from Germany

Johannes

[Pete Cofrancesco]

This is why no one uses tape cameras anymore. It time consuming to import and subject to mechanical failure. You're opening a can of worms buying, using or trying to repair such an old camera.

The few times I have tried to make the most basic internal repair has never ended well. Its one thing to disassemble a camera, another to replace the part and reassemble it. When I did own a camera with this type of issue the repair shop and they would replace the entire tape deck mechanism.

[Johannes Balzer]

Hello Pete,

thank you for your reply.

Well I'm used to that can of worms from my computer collection. There is also something differend failing that needs repair on a monthly basis. So the ability to deal with electronic and mechanical problems is not an issue.
My main problem is finding a service manual for that tape mechanism or a replacement tape mechanism (the latter seems highly unlikely)
Or someone who can tell me how things in there are normally supposed to be.

In the meantime I got hold of a Canon XL H1 which works perfectly and I might just shoot on this one, but I kind of really would like to save the XL1 and do something with that, too.

[Pete Cofrancesco]

You would have to talk to a repair shop but since these cameras have been discontinued long ago probably the only way to replace it would be pull the tape deck from another used camera. Cameras are far more difficult to work on than computers. There is literally no space. The components are tightly layered together with ribbon cables. Often much of the camera must be disassemble to gain access or remove one component. You seem in search of a difficult project because if you already have a camera that works there is no need to mess with this one. I would leave it as museum piece in your collection.

[Allan Black]

Welcome and Pete is right of course, but if you’re interested you might come across a knowledgeable Canon tech. by calling the Canon service dept. in your area and just asking. The tech. might lead you to a service manual or even a repair shop.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/24519/Canon-Xl1.html

Cheers.

[Andrew Smith]

If the pinch roller is wiggly then it's entirely possible that the rubber has perished and lost its material integrity. I've seen this happen with the pinch roller for a quarter inch reel to reel audio recorder/player. There is no option but to replace the part.

Also, the crunchy noises are a bad thing. Guess we know that already.

That said, welcome to the forum. Plenty of helpful people here. Glad to have you along.

Andrew

[Patrick Tracy]

Maybe just capture the video output via the S-Video connector. Then you get the look of the lens and sensor without the hassle of the tape.

[Allan Black]

Just out of interest Maxell is still selling Mini DV recording tapes and Amazon is selling Panasonic Mini DV dry cleaning tapes …

https://shopmaxell.com.au/shop/recor...tape-cassette/

Amazon

 

Amazon

Cheers.

[Johannes Balzer]

Hi,

thank you for all the suggestions.

@Andrew Smith:
It is not the pinchroller itself that is wiggly, rather than the small plastic piece it is mounted to.
I think something might be broken off there :(

@Patrick Tracy:
Yes that is probably what I'll be doing then :/
I already ordered a svideo usb-c capture device that I can plug into my old google pixel 2 xl.
Might actually be helpful to use this as a field monitor as well to get the focus right, since the viewfinder is really awful :)

[Johannes Balzer]

Hi,

so finally my usb-c composite/s-video capture device arrived.
It works awesomely, but I cannot seem to turn off the EVF info overlay on the s-video and composite outputs.
Does anyone know if the XL1 can even do that?

[Andrew Smith]

Would be interested to know which actual capture device you obtained.

Andrew

[Johannes Balzer]

https://www.ebay.de/itm/265765581907?var=565549940254
It is a german ebay listing but I think these things are fairly generic.
I just looked for usb-c DVD or VHS capture
There is tons of these.
And I think lots of people have access to a large screen android phone. I mean they are total garbage as phones but as a cheap field monitor android phones seem great :D
Just maybe 3d-print a sunshade hood for it
https://www.ebay.de/itm/143119918635
Also got this cheap phone holder to mount it to the hot-shoe

[Andrew Smith]

For those of us here who have spent very good money (back in the day) on professional video capture cards, we'd be wondering just how well a 10 euro device will work. Would be most interested if you can post an example frame or two from the captured content.

Andrew

[Don Palomaki]

...but I cannot seem to turn off the EVF info overlay on the s-video and composite outputs.

The "On Screen" button on the wireless remote is used to toggle the on-screen display in the analog video outputs. (They remain on in the EVF.)

Interesting that the date in my XL1 cannot be set beyond 2020.

[Johannes Balzer]

@Don Palomaki
OMG THANKS!!!
I don't have the XL1 remote but luckily the XL H1's remote also works for that.
AWESOME!

Well @Andrew Smith
I have made some pictures. The device captures in 640x480@30FPS I think in MJPEG.
So it clearly is not ideal.
In fact it looks relatively awful.
It barely works for using an old android phone as a focus assist screen and if you really don't care and want to make material for viewing on vintage or retro devices I think that is also fine.

For youtube stuff you'd probably need a proper DTE device that captures the DV stream onto a ssd.
But these cost around 3-4 times as much at least as the used XL1

I have attached some samples:
Photo 1 and Photo 2 are from the XL1 captured via composite
the adapter also has svideo but I think something is wrong with the luminance input of the adapter. It only works when I have really dark scenes. In normal brightness it flickers on and off.
Photo without a number is the same caputure device via composite on the XL H1
So there clearly is a difference in composite output quality on those two cameras.