Shooting a snowboarder at DVinfo.net

Chris Fritsche · October 25th, 2005, 05:44 PM

Any pointer for shooting in the snow?
I am filming a friend in January at Jackson Hole. We are going to do a day at the Village and 2 days on the pass at the parking lot jump, and perhaps Glory, while I know the shots I want, I am not sure what would be "good settings" to use for overall conditions. We will not have the luxary of being able to reshoot or even to look at dailys other than what I might get by running the camera through the Tv in the hotel room.
Where should I start, if you have shot in the snow before, what setting did you use? Any help would be great. Unfortantly I live in Atlnata now so I can't test against snow to get an idea.

Dylan Couper · October 25th, 2005, 06:06 PM

I think we've covered shooting skiiers a couple times, try a search, it may be in the XL1 directory, but I know we've done it.

Douglas Joseph · October 25th, 2005, 06:56 PM

Don't forget to white balance it up.

Kevin Wild · October 25th, 2005, 08:06 PM

But if we shoot all the snowboarders, who would...

Oh never mind. I'm in a Harold Ramis state of mind after attending his panels at Austin Film Festival. The guy is awesome. What a way to start a career...write Animal House and Write/Direct Caddyshack. The guy is a brain, too. Awesome speaker. His new movie "Ice Harvest" is good, but very Cohen brothers.

Okay, back to the topic.

Kevin

Ash Greyson · October 25th, 2005, 08:56 PM

Bring some extra ND filters, you may need them. For action sports I like a high shutter so that can help with the blown out snow. Also, you are going to want to turn down the setup level and master pedestal. I personally would set the blacks to press and the knee to low as well.

ash =o)

Brian Gauthier · October 26th, 2005, 03:11 AM

But be careful with that extreme high shutter speed (1/15000)... I have noticed it tends to bring out that vertical green bar when the sun hits a reflection point such as metal... If I shoot with a shutter more of about 1/250 to 1/500 or so it will alleviate that green bar most of the time...

Pete Bauer · October 26th, 2005, 08:39 AM

If it is a fairly clear day, I'd recommend using a circular polarizer filter. Aside from deepening the blue of the sky, you can eliminate a LOT of glare by rotating the circ polarizer to the right position.

I'm assuming you'll probably want to set the exposure for the skier and not the bright snow or sky for most shots to avoid the "backlit look." You'll lose detail in the snow, but that's probably a lot less important than being able to retain detail in the main subject; in that case, I also think that Ash's suggestions are great.

Also agree on avoiding high shutter speeds to avoid a stuttering / staccato appearance to the footage -- unless that's what you want, or you know you're going to use particular footage for slow motion sequences.

Let us see some clips after you shoot!

Chris Fritsche · October 26th, 2005, 10:40 AM

thanks everyone for your reply's. Some of those I will need to get a videographers dictionary to translate those words and phrases, but I will start studying up of your suggestions.
what does this mean:

-setup level and master pedestal
-press
-knee
-polor at right position, (I thought it was round..???)
-stuttering / staccato appearance

I will post some footage, can't wait!!!!

Brian Gauthier · October 26th, 2005, 12:58 PM

I think I can help with some of this...

-polor at right position, (I thought it was round..???)

For most camera purposes, still and video, you have what is knows as a Circular Polarizer Filter where you can rotate the position of the filer once its mounted to the lens... It works kinda like a ball bearing...

-stuttering / staccato appearance

this is when you have an extreme high shutter speed and what is happening internally in the camera is this... because you are most likely using 30f/s, the shutter is snapping off and on at 1/15000 of a sec... you are getting portions of each frame where the action is not moving much because the shutter is snapping Soo fast that in each frame, the images is not blurred to give it a smooth transition between frames... what I mean by that is its a much more crisp image and doesn’t have the in between motion (the blurring) from frame to frame...

as far as the rest well as I see it pressing the blacks is basically telling the camera to make the value of the black color to be less... to press something below the level... To make the blacks, darker.. To knee white is to tell you white is also below the level... you are placing your knee on the value to push it lower in value... To make the whites brighter..

If I’m wrong on the last two, I’m sure someone will jump in an correct me...
Hope this helps in the definitions...

Wes Coughlin · October 26th, 2005, 01:00 PM

I would consider shooting in 24p at a lower shutter speend; mostly because most snowboard and skiing videos are shot on 16mm film at 24 fps. I have also watch snowboard videos that have used the 24p on dvx-100A and the video has turned out very well. Hopefully you will be able to test before you set up your fist shot.

Ash Greyson · October 27th, 2005, 10:43 PM

I would not shoot sports in 24P... I am doing a national sports show and the only thing I shoot 24P are the hosting segments, all action is done in 30P. The shutter should be fine up to 1/3000 or so, higher shutters can give you vertical smear (usually green but not always) but that can be an interesting effect sometimes...

ash =o)

October 25th, 2005, 05:44 PM	#1
Chris Fritsche Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Houston, TX (Cypress to be exact) Posts: 169	Shooting a snowboarder Any pointer for shooting in the snow? I am filming a friend in January at Jackson Hole. We are going to do a day at the Village and 2 days on the pass at the parking lot jump, and perhaps Glory, while I know the shots I want, I am not sure what would be "good settings" to use for overall conditions. We will not have the luxary of being able to reshoot or even to look at dailys other than what I might get by running the camera through the Tv in the hotel room. Where should I start, if you have shot in the snow before, what setting did you use? Any help would be great. Unfortantly I live in Atlnata now so I can't test against snow to get an idea.

October 25th, 2005, 06:06 PM	#2
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I think we've covered shooting skiiers a couple times, try a search, it may be in the XL1 directory, but I know we've done it. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

October 26th, 2005, 08:39 AM	#7
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	If it is a fairly clear day, I'd recommend using a circular polarizer filter. Aside from deepening the blue of the sky, you can eliminate a LOT of glare by rotating the circ polarizer to the right position. I'm assuming you'll probably want to set the exposure for the skier and not the bright snow or sky for most shots to avoid the "backlit look." You'll lose detail in the snow, but that's probably a lot less important than being able to retain detail in the main subject; in that case, I also think that Ash's suggestions are great. Also agree on avoiding high shutter speeds to avoid a stuttering / staccato appearance to the footage -- unless that's what you want, or you know you're going to use particular footage for slow motion sequences. Let us see some clips after you shoot! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

October 26th, 2005, 01:00 PM	#10
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	I would consider shooting in 24p at a lower shutter speend; mostly because most snowboard and skiing videos are shot on 16mm film at 24 fps. I have also watch snowboard videos that have used the 24p on dvx-100A and the video has turned out very well. Hopefully you will be able to test before you set up your fist shot. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

October 25th, 2005, 06:56 PM	#3
Douglas Joseph Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Zanesville OH Posts: 205	Don't forget to white balance it up.

October 25th, 2005, 08:06 PM	#4
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	But if we shoot all the snowboarders, who would... Oh never mind. I'm in a Harold Ramis state of mind after attending his panels at Austin Film Festival. The guy is awesome. What a way to start a career...write Animal House and Write/Direct Caddyshack. The guy is a brain, too. Awesome speaker. His new movie "Ice Harvest" is good, but very Cohen brothers. Okay, back to the topic. Kevin

October 25th, 2005, 08:56 PM	#5
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Bring some extra ND filters, you may need them. For action sports I like a high shutter so that can help with the blown out snow. Also, you are going to want to turn down the setup level and master pedestal. I personally would set the blacks to press and the knee to low as well. ash =o)

October 26th, 2005, 03:11 AM	#6
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	But be careful with that extreme high shutter speed (1/15000)... I have noticed it tends to bring out that vertical green bar when the sun hits a reflection point such as metal... If I shoot with a shutter more of about 1/250 to 1/500 or so it will alleviate that green bar most of the time...

October 26th, 2005, 10:40 AM	#8
Chris Fritsche Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Houston, TX (Cypress to be exact) Posts: 169	thanks everyone for your reply's. Some of those I will need to get a videographers dictionary to translate those words and phrases, but I will start studying up of your suggestions. what does this mean: -setup level and master pedestal -press -knee -polor at right position, (I thought it was round..???) -stuttering / staccato appearance I will post some footage, can't wait!!!!

October 26th, 2005, 12:58 PM	#9
Brian Gauthier Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: honolulu, hi Posts: 54	I think I can help with some of this... -polor at right position, (I thought it was round..???) For most camera purposes, still and video, you have what is knows as a Circular Polarizer Filter where you can rotate the position of the filer once its mounted to the lens... It works kinda like a ball bearing... -stuttering / staccato appearance this is when you have an extreme high shutter speed and what is happening internally in the camera is this... because you are most likely using 30f/s, the shutter is snapping off and on at 1/15000 of a sec... you are getting portions of each frame where the action is not moving much because the shutter is snapping Soo fast that in each frame, the images is not blurred to give it a smooth transition between frames... what I mean by that is its a much more crisp image and doesn’t have the in between motion (the blurring) from frame to frame... as far as the rest well as I see it pressing the blacks is basically telling the camera to make the value of the black color to be less... to press something below the level... To make the blacks, darker.. To knee white is to tell you white is also below the level... you are placing your knee on the value to push it lower in value... To make the whites brighter.. If I’m wrong on the last two, I’m sure someone will jump in an correct me... Hope this helps in the definitions...

October 27th, 2005, 10:43 PM	#11
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	I would not shoot sports in 24P... I am doing a national sports show and the only thing I shoot 24P are the hosting segments, all action is done in 30P. The shutter should be fine up to 1/3000 or so, higher shutters can give you vertical smear (usually green but not always) but that can be an interesting effect sometimes... ash =o)