Hiring my XL2 at DVinfo.net

Donie Kelly · October 14th, 2005, 03:59 AM

Hi all

Some advice needed on what to watch out for if I am hiring my camera out? What type of terms and conditions should I be using. Has anyone falled foul of doing this?

I need to hire the camera for 1 day per week to a company. Prior training will be required as they have not used an XL2 before. Technical support may be required when they are actually using it.

Any thoughts? And what is the normal charge for hiring an XL2?
Thanks
Donie

Daniel Wojtowicz · October 14th, 2005, 09:27 AM

I dont know about the other stuff but when i was going to rent one they wanted like 215$ canadian per day

Karl Heiner · October 14th, 2005, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donie Kelly

Hi all

Some advice needed on what to watch out for if I am hiring my camera out? What type of terms and conditions should I be using. Has anyone falled foul of doing this?

I need to hire the camera for 1 day per week to a company. Prior training will be required as they have not used an XL2 before. Technical support may be required when they are actually using it.

Any thoughts? And what is the normal charge for hiring an XL2?
Thanks
Donie

hello donie,

i think it's not just the rental fee. what about insurance, damage, theft etc?
or are you the operator

greetings

Donie Kelly · October 14th, 2005, 11:11 AM

Hi guys

No, I will be just giving them the camera. I have enquired about insurance etc. The camera is covered already but I'd rathere put it on their insurance instead.

Thanks
Donie

David Lach · October 18th, 2005, 01:19 PM

Hello Donie. I actually do that from time to time, but only with people I know and trust (fellow videographers, that will return the favor in some other way). I charge a very low price for them, like I said, as a favor, but I still make them sign a liability contract where they are held responsible for any damage, loss or theft that might occur when they are in possession of the camera (which is pretty much the second they come and take it to the very last second when they bring it back).

I don't know how your insurance company takes care of this (if you have one), but here in Montreal there are no companies that will insure rented equipment. I'm professionally insured for all my gear but the second it leaves my hands, they are no longer liable. Big renting facilities are actually auto-insured, meaning they charge a small extra insurance fee on each renting and put that in an insurance pot in case something happens, or so I was told.

You have to understand that you will be doing this at your own risks and if something happens to your XL2 and the guys that got the camera from you don't want to pay, you're off to court with your contract and hopefully a bit of luck to get a refund.

Jonathan Jones · October 19th, 2005, 11:27 AM

Around these parts (Northern California, USA) I have seen the XL2 and similiarly priced cams rent at an average of $225 per day US. Personally, I have not seen a lot of outfits stock up-to-date prosumer cam equipment so pickings are slim, but one outfit I found is a rather large renter with outlets all over the US and they pretty much stock everything, however they have a lenghty application and approval process that includes having your insurance list them as beneficiary if the gear goes kerplop (which makes sense and covers their hides but is much more involved then going in, picking out your gear and presenting a credit card deposit).

I have found several outfits that rent consumer camcorders for about $100 per day, but the ones they stock are pretty much the same consumer level cameras you can buy new at Wal-Mart for $300. The bulk of their clients include shooters for birthdays, graduations and vacations without wanting the full investment of a purchase.

One company actually wanted to rent to me some S-VHS camcorders that have been gathering dust for YEARS! They wanted $100 per day to rent them - but I found the same model on ebay (with guaranteed functionality) for under $30. I passed on this since it was not what I needed anyway.

An interesting thing to note for your situation: I rented a bunch of cams from an outfit last week for a large shoot I was coordinating and I spoke with the vendor about the XL series. He told me that they changed out their XL1's several years ago for the DVX's and decided to stay away from the XL2 for rental because they decided it was more suited as an 'end-user' cam - meaning because of it's components (lens, eyepiece, body, etc) it proved very daunting for new renters and caused too many headaches for rental support from the company, as well as dealing with upkeep when renters did stupid things like screwing up lens mounts, etc. They felt it was smarter to play it safe with a host of one-piece camcorders.

You indicated in your post that rental of your XL2 will require training them how to use it, and that is a must - but for myself, and the fact that my XL2 is depended upon for my income, I would really worry about some user really screwing it up if they weren't really familiar with the camera, on top of the fact that some folks really don't know how to properly respect costly gear if they don't own it themselves.

I hope that whatever choice you make that it is the right one for you and that it all works out. Good luck.
-Jon

Mark Sasahara · October 19th, 2005, 07:58 PM

Don't rent out your camera. Have them hire you. Expanded answer below.

You should read the fine print on your insurance policy, you are probably not covered if you rent your gear out. I sincerely doubt a rider on a home owner's policy will cover you. Most likely their insurance won't cover you either. My professional equipment insurance doesn't cover me if I am renting out my gear. Rental insurance is rather pricey.

I do charge rental on my camera and lighting gear, but that is in addition to my day rate. I would never rent out the camera to anyone and not be there with it. I have to be operating the camera.

Convince the company that they need you to shoot for them. The bad news is that if they are too cheap to buy a camera, then, most likely they are too cheap to hire a shooter, but it's worth a try. If you have to train someone, then I would be very afraid for the life of your camera.

October 14th, 2005, 03:59 AM	#1
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	Hiring my XL2 Hi all Some advice needed on what to watch out for if I am hiring my camera out? What type of terms and conditions should I be using. Has anyone falled foul of doing this? I need to hire the camera for 1 day per week to a company. Prior training will be required as they have not used an XL2 before. Technical support may be required when they are actually using it. Any thoughts? And what is the normal charge for hiring an XL2? Thanks Donie __________________ Macbook Pro 2.0Ghz and Canon XL2

October 14th, 2005, 11:11 AM	#4
Donie Kelly Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 159	Hi guys No, I will be just giving them the camera. I have enquired about insurance etc. The camera is covered already but I'd rathere put it on their insurance instead. Thanks Donie __________________ Macbook Pro 2.0Ghz and Canon XL2

October 19th, 2005, 11:27 AM	#6
Jonathan Jones Trustee Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Healdsburg, California Posts: 1,138	Around these parts (Northern California, USA) I have seen the XL2 and similiarly priced cams rent at an average of $225 per day US. Personally, I have not seen a lot of outfits stock up-to-date prosumer cam equipment so pickings are slim, but one outfit I found is a rather large renter with outlets all over the US and they pretty much stock everything, however they have a lenghty application and approval process that includes having your insurance list them as beneficiary if the gear goes kerplop (which makes sense and covers their hides but is much more involved then going in, picking out your gear and presenting a credit card deposit). I have found several outfits that rent consumer camcorders for about $100 per day, but the ones they stock are pretty much the same consumer level cameras you can buy new at Wal-Mart for $300. The bulk of their clients include shooters for birthdays, graduations and vacations without wanting the full investment of a purchase. One company actually wanted to rent to me some S-VHS camcorders that have been gathering dust for YEARS! They wanted $100 per day to rent them - but I found the same model on ebay (with guaranteed functionality) for under $30. I passed on this since it was not what I needed anyway. An interesting thing to note for your situation: I rented a bunch of cams from an outfit last week for a large shoot I was coordinating and I spoke with the vendor about the XL series. He told me that they changed out their XL1's several years ago for the DVX's and decided to stay away from the XL2 for rental because they decided it was more suited as an 'end-user' cam - meaning because of it's components (lens, eyepiece, body, etc) it proved very daunting for new renters and caused too many headaches for rental support from the company, as well as dealing with upkeep when renters did stupid things like screwing up lens mounts, etc. They felt it was smarter to play it safe with a host of one-piece camcorders. You indicated in your post that rental of your XL2 will require training them how to use it, and that is a must - but for myself, and the fact that my XL2 is depended upon for my income, I would really worry about some user really screwing it up if they weren't really familiar with the camera, on top of the fact that some folks really don't know how to properly respect costly gear if they don't own it themselves. I hope that whatever choice you make that it is the right one for you and that it all works out. Good luck. -Jon __________________ "Are we to go on record, sir, with our assertion that the 'pink hearts, yellow moons, orange stars, and green clovers' are, in point of fact', magically delicious?" - Walter Hollarhan before the House Subcommittee on Integrity in Advertising - May, 1974

October 19th, 2005, 07:58 PM	#7
Mark Sasahara Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: NYC Posts: 649	Don't rent out your camera. Have them hire you. Expanded answer below. You should read the fine print on your insurance policy, you are probably not covered if you rent your gear out. I sincerely doubt a rider on a home owner's policy will cover you. Most likely their insurance won't cover you either. My professional equipment insurance doesn't cover me if I am renting out my gear. Rental insurance is rather pricey. I do charge rental on my camera and lighting gear, but that is in addition to my day rate. I would never rent out the camera to anyone and not be there with it. I have to be operating the camera. Convince the company that they need you to shoot for them. The bad news is that if they are too cheap to buy a camera, then, most likely they are too cheap to hire a shooter, but it's worth a try. If you have to train someone, then I would be very afraid for the life of your camera. __________________ Mark Sasahara Director of Photography

October 14th, 2005, 09:27 AM	#2
Daniel Wojtowicz New Boot Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 20	I dont know about the other stuff but when i was going to rent one they wanted like 215$ canadian per day

October 18th, 2005, 01:19 PM	#5
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Hello Donie. I actually do that from time to time, but only with people I know and trust (fellow videographers, that will return the favor in some other way). I charge a very low price for them, like I said, as a favor, but I still make them sign a liability contract where they are held responsible for any damage, loss or theft that might occur when they are in possession of the camera (which is pretty much the second they come and take it to the very last second when they bring it back). I don't know how your insurance company takes care of this (if you have one), but here in Montreal there are no companies that will insure rented equipment. I'm professionally insured for all my gear but the second it leaves my hands, they are no longer liable. Big renting facilities are actually auto-insured, meaning they charge a small extra insurance fee on each renting and put that in an insurance pot in case something happens, or so I was told. You have to understand that you will be doing this at your own risks and if something happens to your XL2 and the guys that got the camera from you don't want to pay, you're off to court with your contract and hopefully a bit of luck to get a refund.