The Ultimate Guide? at DVinfo.net

Jack Barker · October 3rd, 2005, 08:37 PM

Anybody seen/used "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2"? I desperately need something to get me going - the Owner's Manual just ain't cutting it. It shows the how of settings, but not the why you should make a specific choice. Example: when and why would I choose to use drop frame or non-drop frame? What does either do? (No need to actually answer the drop frame question).

If not, do you know of any other guides out there, print or CD?

Ash Greyson · October 3rd, 2005, 10:57 PM

What the XL2 tour video on the top of this page here:

http://dvcreators.net/

Then ask us questions. I have had the camera since day 1 and owned all the XL series cams since their release. Between myself and others, we have most everything figured out, just nobody has made a comprehensive guide.

ash =o)

Scott Nutter · October 4th, 2005, 04:38 AM

Jack,

I purchased the "Ultimate Guide" DVD and watched it twice. It is a comprehensive run through every menu selection possible but not much regarding WHY you would choose certain settings.

Selections I wasn't as familiar with such as "coring, "knee," "drop frame" etc. are not rreally discussed in detail......just how to get to the menu and what choices the XL2 offers.

Other web sites are more educational but it requires a lot of searching.

Scott

Jack Barker · October 4th, 2005, 07:21 AM

Thanks guys,

Ash; I downloaded the XL2 Tour before I had the camera and at th mment, it's the best thing I've got. It even has a couple of the kinds of things I'm looking for - "here it is turned on and here it is turned off..", but not nearly enough examples.

Scott; Does the "Ultimate Guide" explain at all what happens with a certain setting? Example: "Choose 'Black Press' and blacks, including shadows, become more dense".

You said, "Other web sites are more educational but it requires a lot of searching." Any in particular? I already frequent DVInfo, DVXUser, TheXL2.com, Cinematography.com, DV.com & DVCreators.

Scott Nutter · October 4th, 2005, 02:12 PM

Jack,

It does give some descriptions of setting changes and they use a waveform monitor to highlight some of the results. I enjoyed those examples during the dvd. There are not many side by side comparisons of video shot with various setting changes.

I think the dvd is worth the purchase price. I'm sure I will watch it again as I become more familiar with the XL2 just to make sure I am exploiting all of the capalilities of the camera.

I was looking for more "real world" examples of settings used in specific circumstances. I would like to shoot some reasonably fast moving action involving equestrian sports. I would like to shoot with editing some slow-motion clips in mind. Where do you start? I just started with the Tv mode and selected 1/100, 1/500, 1/1000, 1/2000 frame rates and 60i. Now I will try the same settings in 30p. I have no idea which settings will be the best because I haven't found a good reference to get me in the ball park. That's okay.....even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. So will I.

The dvd is fine but don't expect it to go much deeper than a brief explaination of the menu selection and MAYBE the purpose of the setting.

I'll post other web sites when I return from a trip to Florida for the last horse show of the season. My wife has to go and compete client's horses. I'm going to keep learning my XL2!

Take care.

Mark Montgomery · October 4th, 2005, 03:22 PM

Jack,

Consider searching through www.videomaker.com. You might find some answers there, as well as the others mentioned.

Mark

Greg Boston · October 4th, 2005, 03:25 PM

This location will help somewhat for explaining what the various functions are for.

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...=2#subsection7

It's part of the features description pages on Canon's XL2 webpages. Click on some of the other links at the top of the page for additional info. Much better than the manual which, like you said, only tells how to turn on/off various settings.

regards,

-gb-

Jack Barker · October 4th, 2005, 05:16 PM

Greg, Thanks for reminding me about those web pages. I had seen them before, but because they weren't downloadable, I moved on. This time, I printed each page as a PDF and then combined the pages into one PDF booklet. Less than stellar results, but the words and pictures are there. I don't know why Canon can't just make this kind of stuff a downloadable PDF in the first place. They gotta know that there are dweebs in this world like me, who will buy more technology than they can handle!

Bryan Aycock · June 15th, 2006, 06:08 PM

You all posted links to help him out, but no one answered his question, and I for one am wondering the same thing. Why would I choose drop/non-drop time code?

Richard Hunter · June 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM

Hi Bryan. Jack's first post said no need to answer that question, I presume that's why nobody did.

Below is what the Vegas Help file says about when to use DF and NDF in a Vegas project. Does it help?

Richard

SMPTE Non-Drop
(29.97 fps, Video)
Displays the ruler in hours:minutes:seconds:frames with a frame rate of 29.97 frames per second, which leads to a discrepancy between real ("wall clock") time and the SMPTE time, because there is no compensation in the counting system as there is in Drop Frame.

Use SMPTE Non-Drop format for NTSC D1 projects that will be recorded on master tapes striped with Non-Drop timecode.

SMPTE Drop
(29.97 fps, Video)
Displays the ruler in hours:minutes:seconds;frames with a frame rate of 29.97 fps to match the frame rate used by NTSC television systems (North America, Japan).

Use SMPTE Drop Frame format for NTSC DV/D1 projects.

Both SMPTE Drop and SMPTE Non-Drop run at 29.97 fps. In both formats, the actual frames are not discarded, but they are numbered differently. SMPTE Drop removes certain frame numbers the counting system to keep the SMPTE clock from drifting from real ("wall clock") time. The time is adjusted forward by two frames on every minute boundary except 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50. For example, when SMPTE Drop time increments from 00:00:59.29, the next value will be 00:01:00.02.

Josh Bass · June 16th, 2006, 08:47 AM

So, which one should we be using on a regular basis? I'd always found drop frame annoying to deal with, just 'cause of the weird numbering (in post, I mean--a drop frame timeline).

What does the XL1s shoot? It's NDF, right?

What's the importance of the timecode not drifting from "real time"?

P.S. is that video the link refers to still there? I see nothing referring to the XL2 on that page.

Jarrod Whaley · June 16th, 2006, 09:03 AM

I'm pretty sure the video referred to earlier is the same as the "product tour" on Canon USA's main XL2 page.

Tim Bickford · June 16th, 2006, 02:20 PM

I purchased "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2" when I purchased my XL2. Prior to that, I only had experience with a Hi-8 sony with very little options. "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2" was very helpful - especially to a beginner.

Andy Joyce · June 16th, 2006, 06:40 PM

I definitely agree that all you really need is the "Ultimate Guide" DVD and the "XL2 Feature Tour" mentioned here to get up to speed. The rest you learn through experimentation, and this site of course.

Joe Barker · June 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM

If you have never used the XL2 before,or you are not sure about all its functions ,then I highly recommend getting the DVD, Ultimate guide.Its a visual step by step guide you can watch as you discover your camera.
It sure beats the hell out of reading through reels or paper instructions or trawling the web for relevant information.The best purchase any XL2 owner can make after getting the camera.

October 3rd, 2005, 08:37 PM	#1
Jack Barker Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 342	The Ultimate Guide? Anybody seen/used "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2"? I desperately need something to get me going - the Owner's Manual just ain't cutting it. It shows the how of settings, but not the why you should make a specific choice. Example: when and why would I choose to use drop frame or non-drop frame? What does either do? (No need to actually answer the drop frame question). If not, do you know of any other guides out there, print or CD?

October 4th, 2005, 03:22 PM	#6
Mark Montgomery New Boot Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chico, CA Posts: 14	another website Jack, Consider searching through www.videomaker.com. You might find some answers there, as well as the others mentioned. Mark

June 15th, 2006, 06:08 PM	#9
Bryan Aycock Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Hammond, LA Posts: 84	No Answer!!! You all posted links to help him out, but no one answered his question, and I for one am wondering the same thing. Why would I choose drop/non-drop time code?

June 16th, 2006, 08:47 AM	#11
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	So, which one should we be using on a regular basis? I'd always found drop frame annoying to deal with, just 'cause of the weird numbering (in post, I mean--a drop frame timeline). What does the XL1s shoot? It's NDF, right? What's the importance of the timecode not drifting from "real time"? P.S. is that video the link refers to still there? I see nothing referring to the XL2 on that page. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 16th, 2006, 09:03 AM	#12
Jarrod Whaley Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: chattanooga, tn Posts: 721	I'm pretty sure the video referred to earlier is the same as the "product tour" on Canon USA's main XL2 page. __________________ -->jarrod whaley. www.oakstreetfilms.com

October 3rd, 2005, 10:57 PM	#2
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	What the XL2 tour video on the top of this page here: http://dvcreators.net/ Then ask us questions. I have had the camera since day 1 and owned all the XL series cams since their release. Between myself and others, we have most everything figured out, just nobody has made a comprehensive guide. ash =o)

October 4th, 2005, 04:38 AM	#3
Scott Nutter New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Atlanta area Posts: 11	Jack, I purchased the "Ultimate Guide" DVD and watched it twice. It is a comprehensive run through every menu selection possible but not much regarding WHY you would choose certain settings. Selections I wasn't as familiar with such as "coring, "knee," "drop frame" etc. are not rreally discussed in detail......just how to get to the menu and what choices the XL2 offers. Other web sites are more educational but it requires a lot of searching. Scott

October 4th, 2005, 07:21 AM	#4
Jack Barker Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 342	Thanks guys, Ash; I downloaded the XL2 Tour before I had the camera and at th mment, it's the best thing I've got. It even has a couple of the kinds of things I'm looking for - "here it is turned on and here it is turned off..", but not nearly enough examples. Scott; Does the "Ultimate Guide" explain at all what happens with a certain setting? Example: "Choose 'Black Press' and blacks, including shadows, become more dense". You said, "Other web sites are more educational but it requires a lot of searching." Any in particular? I already frequent DVInfo, DVXUser, TheXL2.com, Cinematography.com, DV.com & DVCreators.

October 4th, 2005, 02:12 PM	#5
Scott Nutter New Boot Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Atlanta area Posts: 11	Jack, It does give some descriptions of setting changes and they use a waveform monitor to highlight some of the results. I enjoyed those examples during the dvd. There are not many side by side comparisons of video shot with various setting changes. I think the dvd is worth the purchase price. I'm sure I will watch it again as I become more familiar with the XL2 just to make sure I am exploiting all of the capalilities of the camera. I was looking for more "real world" examples of settings used in specific circumstances. I would like to shoot some reasonably fast moving action involving equestrian sports. I would like to shoot with editing some slow-motion clips in mind. Where do you start? I just started with the Tv mode and selected 1/100, 1/500, 1/1000, 1/2000 frame rates and 60i. Now I will try the same settings in 30p. I have no idea which settings will be the best because I haven't found a good reference to get me in the ball park. That's okay.....even a blind squirrel eventually finds a nut. So will I. The dvd is fine but don't expect it to go much deeper than a brief explaination of the menu selection and MAYBE the purpose of the setting. I'll post other web sites when I return from a trip to Florida for the last horse show of the season. My wife has to go and compete client's horses. I'm going to keep learning my XL2! Take care.

October 4th, 2005, 03:25 PM	#7
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	This location will help somewhat for explaining what the various functions are for. http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...=2#subsection7 It's part of the features description pages on Canon's XL2 webpages. Click on some of the other links at the top of the page for additional info. Much better than the manual which, like you said, only tells how to turn on/off various settings. regards, -gb-

October 4th, 2005, 05:16 PM	#8
Jack Barker Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 342	Greg, Thanks for reminding me about those web pages. I had seen them before, but because they weren't downloadable, I moved on. This time, I printed each page as a PDF and then combined the pages into one PDF booklet. Less than stellar results, but the words and pictures are there. I don't know why Canon can't just make this kind of stuff a downloadable PDF in the first place. They gotta know that there are dweebs in this world like me, who will buy more technology than they can handle!

June 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM	#10
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi Bryan. Jack's first post said no need to answer that question, I presume that's why nobody did. Below is what the Vegas Help file says about when to use DF and NDF in a Vegas project. Does it help? Richard SMPTE Non-Drop (29.97 fps, Video) Displays the ruler in hours:minutes:seconds:frames with a frame rate of 29.97 frames per second, which leads to a discrepancy between real ("wall clock") time and the SMPTE time, because there is no compensation in the counting system as there is in Drop Frame. Use SMPTE Non-Drop format for NTSC D1 projects that will be recorded on master tapes striped with Non-Drop timecode. SMPTE Drop (29.97 fps, Video) Displays the ruler in hours:minutes:seconds;frames with a frame rate of 29.97 fps to match the frame rate used by NTSC television systems (North America, Japan). Use SMPTE Drop Frame format for NTSC DV/D1 projects. Both SMPTE Drop and SMPTE Non-Drop run at 29.97 fps. In both formats, the actual frames are not discarded, but they are numbered differently. SMPTE Drop removes certain frame numbers the counting system to keep the SMPTE clock from drifting from real ("wall clock") time. The time is adjusted forward by two frames on every minute boundary except 0, 10, 20, 30, 40, and 50. For example, when SMPTE Drop time increments from 00:00:59.29, the next value will be 00:01:00.02.

June 16th, 2006, 02:20 PM	#13
Tim Bickford Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 448	I purchased "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2" when I purchased my XL2. Prior to that, I only had experience with a Hi-8 sony with very little options. "The Ultimate Guide to the Canon XL2" was very helpful - especially to a beginner.

June 16th, 2006, 06:40 PM	#14
Andy Joyce Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Silicon Valley Posts: 61	I definitely agree that all you really need is the "Ultimate Guide" DVD and the "XL2 Feature Tour" mentioned here to get up to speed. The rest you learn through experimentation, and this site of course. __________________ ----------------------------------- XL2: power to go, quality to impress

June 16th, 2006, 09:32 PM	#15
Joe Barker Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Perth WA Australia Posts: 124	If you have never used the XL2 before,or you are not sure about all its functions ,then I highly recommend getting the DVD, Ultimate guide.Its a visual step by step guide you can watch as you discover your camera. It sure beats the hell out of reading through reels or paper instructions or trawling the web for relevant information.The best purchase any XL2 owner can make after getting the camera.