Secondary Camera at DVinfo.net

Tom Woodworth · September 13th, 2005, 12:22 PM

I currently use an XL2 as my primary camera, but I'm looking for another camera to use as a secondary and back up/emergency camera. I've been doing special events shooting and have done two weddings. I was hoping to use the same batteries i have for my XL2, as I have three of them. I suppose the logical and easiest thing to do would be to buy another XL2 but I don't think my budget could handle that at this point, maximum cost would probably be around the 1,500.00 dollar range right now. I had thoughts of say an XL1 or maybe even the GL1 but don't know much about those cameras at this point. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

Jay Gladwell · September 13th, 2005, 12:44 PM

You would have to degrade the XL2 image to match the XL1 or GL2. This defeats having the XL2.

Check around, maybe you can find someone desparate to sell his XL2.

Jay

Tom Woodworth · September 14th, 2005, 11:14 PM

Is there a less expensive camera that matches the video quality of the XL2 available?

Jay Gladwell · September 15th, 2005, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Woodworth

Is there a less expensive camera that matches the video quality of the XL2 available?

Nope.

With the XLH1 coming out soon, you'll be able to buy a used XL2 fairly cheap, I'd say.

Jay

Pete Bauer · September 15th, 2005, 09:23 AM

A cheap second camera is something I considered, too. But alas, I don't believe there is a cheaper camera whose footage can even come close to standing up to the XL2's...you'd have to reduce your picture quality to that of the less expensive camera to mix the footage.

With several HD cameras being readied for market, I agree there may be some downward pressure on the XL2. But my guess is not really that much...If your upper limit is $1500, I think for the forseeable future you're not going to get a new or good-condition used XL2 for anywhere near that.

Marty Hudzik · September 15th, 2005, 11:42 AM

DVX100 when in 4x3 mode. In 16x9 it falls a little short but it is the closest out there!

Tom Woodworth · September 16th, 2005, 06:03 PM

Has anyone bought and/or used the Sony HDR-HC1 HDV Camcorder? This is a camera I'm seriously considering...more so for the price then the HD capability. So far the only knock against it that I've heard is that the low light capabilities are less then desireable. Thanks for the info and knowledge.

Boyd Ostroff · September 16th, 2005, 06:24 PM

How about a PDX-10 for $1,800 (until 9/30 when the rebate ends)? No progressive scan, but the 16:9 is very good and you have XLR's.

Kevin Wild · September 16th, 2005, 07:40 PM

I just finished shooting 2 focus groups with both the GL1 and XL2 simultaneously. FWIW, I also synced them and put them both in DVD SP on different video tracks (same audio). Great way to let a client "live cut" a long meeting like that.

Anyways, I did find that it's VERY tough to match these 2 cameras. The GL1 is MUCH sharper and more video-ey. The XL2 is such a nice smooth picture. I got the white balance close and then color corrected it in FCP. It's really the details in the long shots where you see the most difference.

I wouldn't hesitate to use them together for a wedding or event, though. Just have the GL1 be a more "roving" camera and the XL2 your main camera. I would also recommend that the GL1 stays mostly close in on your subjects. Try not to cut to a similar shot (med shot to med shot of same person) or you'll really see the differences.

If they're lit well, the GL1 puts out a simply amazing picture. I've had mind for 4 years and am still stunned at how good it is with the right light. Amazing camera. I love my Xl2 for pro work, but for simpler point and shoot stuff, the GL1/GL2 are great cameras.

Hope it helps.

Kevin

Tom Woodworth · September 16th, 2005, 08:44 PM

Good informatio Kevin. It's one thing to read all sorts of reviews, but I also like to hear from people who have actually done what I'm considering doing. In any case, my dilemna is two fold I suppose. Cost is a factor and uniformity is a consideration. Can anyone tell me whether or not the XL1, GL1, and/or the GL2 use the same battery as the XL2? I'm considering Sony HDR-HC1 HDV, however having to shell out more money for a better battery and external charger is an issue. I also can't find an answer to an odd question of sorts. Although having an HD camcorder would be great, at this time and for the short term future, I would want to edit the video so the output (final cut DVD) was SD. If that is possible with the Sony HDR-HC1, I'd also like to address the "matching" of video quality between HD (degraded to SD) and video shot originally in SD. In other words even if I could edit in SD from the HDR-HC1 would I still be faced with the problem of having to "degrade" the video form the XL2? Thanks again for the information and feeback...it's a tough decision due to tight finances but I've got to make the decision sooner rather then later.

Kevin Wild · September 17th, 2005, 09:10 AM

Yes, the GL1, GL2, XL1, XL2 and the new H1 ALL use the same batteries. While we sometimes gripe about Canon not changing things up enough, they are very good at making things compatible within their line.

I wouldn't worry about "degrading" the XL2 shot much. I would never do that during production. Get the best video you can with both cameras. If you need to skew the picture a bit in post, do it then. The one thing I did to make them match was turn the sharpness UP on my XL2. The GL is much sharper (though you can adjust that, too) where the XL2 is smoother.

You'd be fine with these 2 cameras. One nice side is that you can use the GL1/2 for home video stuff. It's so compact and still does a great job.

Good luck.

Kevin

Tom Woodworth · September 17th, 2005, 09:51 AM

Great stuff Kevin. I do want something smaller and more compact then the XL2 as a secondary camera. I once used footage from a Canon ZR45 mixed in with footage from my XL2. There was of course a difference but in the end the project looked fine to everyone who saw it. Granted no one viewing was a "videophile" or "video expert", but no one made mention of any terrible quality flaws. Anyway, of the smaller, less expensive cameras which would you choose yourself? Is there any video quality difference between say, the GL1 and GL2? Thanks again for the info.

Kevin Wild · September 17th, 2005, 11:42 AM

I haven't used a GL2, but from what I know, it was mainly features that were difference and not anything to do with image. (Someone pipe in if I'm wrong with that please!)

I would HIGHLY recommend the GL1 or GL2 if your main camera is a Canon. Your ability to get the looks closer to matching are much better using the same camera line/maker. I would guess you could get a GL1 pretty cheap these days used...or if you can wait a few months, I would bet you'll be able to get a very cheap GL2 when Canon announces an HDV camera...GL3. Speculation only and no date is set, but they are WAY due for a rev to the GL2 and it would almost HAVE to be an HDV camera.

Kevin

Tom Woodworth · September 17th, 2005, 02:47 PM

What do you speculate the price range will be for the "GL3?" Also have you bought used equipment before, and if so have you bought from someone/somewhere on the net that you would recommend? Thanks again.

Bruce S. Yarock · September 17th, 2005, 02:51 PM

I have a gl1, which I kept atfer buying my xl2. The gl1 has an incredible image right out of the box.If you leave the xl2 in 4:3,and stick to the standard preset look on the xl2, you can easily match the gl1 for a second camera.It's fairly easy to use in manual also.
When I first started using the xl2 (and first started shooting in manual), I was bummed out because the gl1 looked just as good.But then I learned more about manual, and custom presets...
Bruce S. Yarock

September 13th, 2005, 12:22 PM	#1
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera I currently use an XL2 as my primary camera, but I'm looking for another camera to use as a secondary and back up/emergency camera. I've been doing special events shooting and have done two weddings. I was hoping to use the same batteries i have for my XL2, as I have three of them. I suppose the logical and easiest thing to do would be to buy another XL2 but I don't think my budget could handle that at this point, maximum cost would probably be around the 1,500.00 dollar range right now. I had thoughts of say an XL1 or maybe even the GL1 but don't know much about those cameras at this point. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

September 14th, 2005, 11:14 PM	#3
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera Is there a less expensive camera that matches the video quality of the XL2 available?

September 15th, 2005, 09:23 AM	#5
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	A cheap second camera is something I considered, too. But alas, I don't believe there is a cheaper camera whose footage can even come close to standing up to the XL2's...you'd have to reduce your picture quality to that of the less expensive camera to mix the footage. With several HD cameras being readied for market, I agree there may be some downward pressure on the XL2. But my guess is not really that much...If your upper limit is $1500, I think for the forseeable future you're not going to get a new or good-condition used XL2 for anywhere near that. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

September 16th, 2005, 06:03 PM	#7
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera Has anyone bought and/or used the Sony HDR-HC1 HDV Camcorder? This is a camera I'm seriously considering...more so for the price then the HD capability. So far the only knock against it that I've heard is that the low light capabilities are less then desireable. Thanks for the info and knowledge.

September 16th, 2005, 08:44 PM	#10
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera Good informatio Kevin. It's one thing to read all sorts of reviews, but I also like to hear from people who have actually done what I'm considering doing. In any case, my dilemna is two fold I suppose. Cost is a factor and uniformity is a consideration. Can anyone tell me whether or not the XL1, GL1, and/or the GL2 use the same battery as the XL2? I'm considering Sony HDR-HC1 HDV, however having to shell out more money for a better battery and external charger is an issue. I also can't find an answer to an odd question of sorts. Although having an HD camcorder would be great, at this time and for the short term future, I would want to edit the video so the output (final cut DVD) was SD. If that is possible with the Sony HDR-HC1, I'd also like to address the "matching" of video quality between HD (degraded to SD) and video shot originally in SD. In other words even if I could edit in SD from the HDR-HC1 would I still be faced with the problem of having to "degrade" the video form the XL2? Thanks again for the information and feeback...it's a tough decision due to tight finances but I've got to make the decision sooner rather then later.

September 13th, 2005, 12:44 PM	#2
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	You would have to degrade the XL2 image to match the XL1 or GL2. This defeats having the XL2. Check around, maybe you can find someone desparate to sell his XL2. Jay

September 15th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#6
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	DVX100 when in 4x3 mode. In 16x9 it falls a little short but it is the closest out there!

September 16th, 2005, 06:24 PM	#8
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,800	How about a PDX-10 for $1,800 (until 9/30 when the rebate ends)? No progressive scan, but the 16:9 is very good and you have XLR's.

September 16th, 2005, 07:40 PM	#9
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	I just finished shooting 2 focus groups with both the GL1 and XL2 simultaneously. FWIW, I also synced them and put them both in DVD SP on different video tracks (same audio). Great way to let a client "live cut" a long meeting like that. Anyways, I did find that it's VERY tough to match these 2 cameras. The GL1 is MUCH sharper and more video-ey. The XL2 is such a nice smooth picture. I got the white balance close and then color corrected it in FCP. It's really the details in the long shots where you see the most difference. I wouldn't hesitate to use them together for a wedding or event, though. Just have the GL1 be a more "roving" camera and the XL2 your main camera. I would also recommend that the GL1 stays mostly close in on your subjects. Try not to cut to a similar shot (med shot to med shot of same person) or you'll really see the differences. If they're lit well, the GL1 puts out a simply amazing picture. I've had mind for 4 years and am still stunned at how good it is with the right light. Amazing camera. I love my Xl2 for pro work, but for simpler point and shoot stuff, the GL1/GL2 are great cameras. Hope it helps. Kevin

September 17th, 2005, 09:10 AM	#11
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Yes, the GL1, GL2, XL1, XL2 and the new H1 ALL use the same batteries. While we sometimes gripe about Canon not changing things up enough, they are very good at making things compatible within their line. I wouldn't worry about "degrading" the XL2 shot much. I would never do that during production. Get the best video you can with both cameras. If you need to skew the picture a bit in post, do it then. The one thing I did to make them match was turn the sharpness UP on my XL2. The GL is much sharper (though you can adjust that, too) where the XL2 is smoother. You'd be fine with these 2 cameras. One nice side is that you can use the GL1/2 for home video stuff. It's so compact and still does a great job. Good luck. Kevin

September 17th, 2005, 09:51 AM	#12
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera Great stuff Kevin. I do want something smaller and more compact then the XL2 as a secondary camera. I once used footage from a Canon ZR45 mixed in with footage from my XL2. There was of course a difference but in the end the project looked fine to everyone who saw it. Granted no one viewing was a "videophile" or "video expert", but no one made mention of any terrible quality flaws. Anyway, of the smaller, less expensive cameras which would you choose yourself? Is there any video quality difference between say, the GL1 and GL2? Thanks again for the info.

September 17th, 2005, 11:42 AM	#13
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	I haven't used a GL2, but from what I know, it was mainly features that were difference and not anything to do with image. (Someone pipe in if I'm wrong with that please!) I would HIGHLY recommend the GL1 or GL2 if your main camera is a Canon. Your ability to get the looks closer to matching are much better using the same camera line/maker. I would guess you could get a GL1 pretty cheap these days used...or if you can wait a few months, I would bet you'll be able to get a very cheap GL2 when Canon announces an HDV camera...GL3. Speculation only and no date is set, but they are WAY due for a rev to the GL2 and it would almost HAVE to be an HDV camera. Kevin

September 17th, 2005, 02:47 PM	#14
Tom Woodworth Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 42	Secondary Camera What do you speculate the price range will be for the "GL3?" Also have you bought used equipment before, and if so have you bought from someone/somewhere on the net that you would recommend? Thanks again.

September 17th, 2005, 02:51 PM	#15
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	I have a gl1, which I kept atfer buying my xl2. The gl1 has an incredible image right out of the box.If you leave the xl2 in 4:3,and stick to the standard preset look on the xl2, you can easily match the gl1 for a second camera.It's fairly easy to use in manual also. When I first started using the xl2 (and first started shooting in manual), I was bummed out because the gl1 looked just as good.But then I learned more about manual, and custom presets... Bruce S. Yarock