Black and White Presets at DVinfo.net

Lucinda Luvaas · August 5th, 2005, 02:54 PM

Hi Again,

I know I can experiment with this issue, but I wanted some imput anyway. I just watched a really fine documentary called: Dark Days. I highly recommend it. It was shot in black and white on film. It was shot under ground in NYC where homeless people lived and built shelters. It was very dark down there as you can well imagine, and they put up lights, hooked them up on strings or something like that. The film was somewhat grainy in appearance and had strong contrast, reminding one of Goya's dark paintings as well as having a gothic quality, definitely medieval in tone.

I have a film I'm going to produce starting in the Fall and I'm contemplating whether to go with black and white or color, with my XL2 of course....it is a creepy story, and I want to really play around with getting a dark mood, dark, mysterious mood.

Has anyone played with black and white presets?.... I have a # of color presets I'm trying, but any suggestions in terms of creating strong contrasts, and a moody, grainy quality with the XL2?

Thanks for your imput!

Lucinda

Mathieu Ghekiere · August 5th, 2005, 04:13 PM

Hi Lucinda,

I little year ago I began filming a feature (didn't finished it, but anyhow) and I wanted it to shoot in black and white also, and I was filming with the XL1s.
And everybody here gave me the advice to shoot in colour and do the black and white effect in post.
You get the same results, but more options, because you can maybe first alter a colour, and THEN put it in black and white, or for blue screen work.

Thing is, with film stock, you have that difference, but with video, you can't actually 'shoot' in black and white, they just get the colour signals (or something) out of your image, but that's the same thing you do in post.
So it really is better in post.

I'll give you the link to the thread I started when I asked this question on these boards, maybe it's helpfull for you:
(btw: I wanted a very high contrast, like a film noir)

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ht=black+white

Good luck!

If you on the set want to see the image in black and white you can bring a monitor and reduce the colour.

EDIT: I found this to, somebody who shot a music documentary with the XL1s, and found such a black and white grainy picture. It's kind of recently posted, and I reacted on it too, I think the settings are given in his post, but you can always ask him. In his post there are links to pictures, some are black and white, some aren't.
Maybe you find this useful too:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47370

Lucinda Luvaas · August 5th, 2005, 04:49 PM

Thanks Mathieu,

It's funny you mentioned what you did, because I'm capturing footage right now that I'm saving in two different timelines, one will be color and the other I'll make black and white and then do as you suggested. I appreciate the advice. I will make the alterations in post. I'll check out what you just sent as well.

Cheers!

Lucinda

Lucinda Luvaas · August 5th, 2005, 06:48 PM

This is really a question for Ash:

You posted the thread below and I saw the jpgs which were great! I want that sort of look for some of the footage I'm doing. But, I was unable to get it. The gain on my XL2 won't go passed 12db, the 18db flashes magenta and the 12 is yellow..so no 30db and even if I use 12 and take the sharpening down more than you mention and the coring, it still isn't the same effect.

Any suggestions as to how to get the grainy noisy look in b&w on the XL2? Would the Contrast B&W.bbp file be the same look?

Thanks for your help!

Fun setting for you XL1s users

I stumbled on this setting a fews years back while shooting a documentary where, at times, there was nearly no light. It is unique but VERY VERY noisy, something fun but not for everyday use.

In your custom settings, move the sharpness half way down (move 2 or 3 notches to the left), the setup level ALL the way down and the color gain ALL the way down... Then make your shutter 1/60th and gain +30dB, use the aperture to control the light... here are some grabs... some of them with more action were shot with a higher shutter (1/250th) These are all RAW interlaced video grabs....

ash =o)

http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio24.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio58.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio46.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio53.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio54.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio4.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio19.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio20.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/joe15.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/joe16.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio11.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/ystudio48.jpg

Here are couple with the same settings BUT color BOOSTED up a couple notches:

http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio59.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio60.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio69.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio45.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/J5.jpg
http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio48.jpg

Ash Greyson · August 6th, 2005, 01:33 PM

XL2 will not get as grainy, you can always add grain in post as well and generally it is recommended to get as clean an image as possible to the camera. Try this setting for a B&W look on the XL2..

Gain: +12dB

Gamma: Normal
Knee: high
Black: press

Color Matrix: Normal
Color Gain: -6
Color Phase: 0

R Gain: 0
G Gain: 0
B Gain: 0

V Detail: normal
Sharpness: -3 to -6
Coring: -3

Setup Level: -6
Master Ped: -3 to -6
NR: off

ash =o)

Lucinda Luvaas · August 7th, 2005, 02:37 PM

Thanks Ash!

I did add noise last night and that worked, but thanks for these settings. I'll try them.

Lucinda

August 5th, 2005, 02:54 PM	#1
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Black and White Presets Hi Again, I know I can experiment with this issue, but I wanted some imput anyway. I just watched a really fine documentary called: Dark Days. I highly recommend it. It was shot in black and white on film. It was shot under ground in NYC where homeless people lived and built shelters. It was very dark down there as you can well imagine, and they put up lights, hooked them up on strings or something like that. The film was somewhat grainy in appearance and had strong contrast, reminding one of Goya's dark paintings as well as having a gothic quality, definitely medieval in tone. I have a film I'm going to produce starting in the Fall and I'm contemplating whether to go with black and white or color, with my XL2 of course....it is a creepy story, and I want to really play around with getting a dark mood, dark, mysterious mood. Has anyone played with black and white presets?.... I have a # of color presets I'm trying, but any suggestions in terms of creating strong contrasts, and a moody, grainy quality with the XL2? Thanks for your imput! Lucinda

August 5th, 2005, 06:48 PM	#4
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	This is really a question for Ash: You posted the thread below and I saw the jpgs which were great! I want that sort of look for some of the footage I'm doing. But, I was unable to get it. The gain on my XL2 won't go passed 12db, the 18db flashes magenta and the 12 is yellow..so no 30db and even if I use 12 and take the sharpening down more than you mention and the coring, it still isn't the same effect. Any suggestions as to how to get the grainy noisy look in b&w on the XL2? Would the Contrast B&W.bbp file be the same look? Thanks for your help! Fun setting for you XL1s users I stumbled on this setting a fews years back while shooting a documentary where, at times, there was nearly no light. It is unique but VERY VERY noisy, something fun but not for everyday use. In your custom settings, move the sharpness half way down (move 2 or 3 notches to the left), the setup level ALL the way down and the color gain ALL the way down... Then make your shutter 1/60th and gain +30dB, use the aperture to control the light... here are some grabs... some of them with more action were shot with a higher shutter (1/250th) These are all RAW interlaced video grabs.... ash =o) http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio24.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio58.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio46.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio53.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio54.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio4.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio19.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio20.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/joe15.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/joe16.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio11.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/ystudio48.jpg Here are couple with the same settings BUT color BOOSTED up a couple notches: http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio59.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio60.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio69.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio45.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/J5.jpg http://members.aol.com/ashVID/Grabs/studio48.jpg Last edited by Lucinda Luvaas; August 5th, 2005 at 07:52 PM.

August 5th, 2005, 04:13 PM	#2
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Hi Lucinda, I little year ago I began filming a feature (didn't finished it, but anyhow) and I wanted it to shoot in black and white also, and I was filming with the XL1s. And everybody here gave me the advice to shoot in colour and do the black and white effect in post. You get the same results, but more options, because you can maybe first alter a colour, and THEN put it in black and white, or for blue screen work. Thing is, with film stock, you have that difference, but with video, you can't actually 'shoot' in black and white, they just get the colour signals (or something) out of your image, but that's the same thing you do in post. So it really is better in post. I'll give you the link to the thread I started when I asked this question on these boards, maybe it's helpfull for you: (btw: I wanted a very high contrast, like a film noir) http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ht=black+white Good luck! If you on the set want to see the image in black and white you can bring a monitor and reduce the colour. EDIT: I found this to, somebody who shot a music documentary with the XL1s, and found such a black and white grainy picture. It's kind of recently posted, and I reacted on it too, I think the settings are given in his post, but you can always ask him. In his post there are links to pictures, some are black and white, some aren't. Maybe you find this useful too: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=47370

August 5th, 2005, 04:49 PM	#3
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Thanks Mathieu, It's funny you mentioned what you did, because I'm capturing footage right now that I'm saving in two different timelines, one will be color and the other I'll make black and white and then do as you suggested. I appreciate the advice. I will make the alterations in post. I'll check out what you just sent as well. Cheers! Lucinda

August 6th, 2005, 01:33 PM	#5
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	XL2 will not get as grainy, you can always add grain in post as well and generally it is recommended to get as clean an image as possible to the camera. Try this setting for a B&W look on the XL2.. Gain: +12dB Gamma: Normal Knee: high Black: press Color Matrix: Normal Color Gain: -6 Color Phase: 0 R Gain: 0 G Gain: 0 B Gain: 0 V Detail: normal Sharpness: -3 to -6 Coring: -3 Setup Level: -6 Master Ped: -3 to -6 NR: off ash =o)

August 7th, 2005, 02:37 PM	#6
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Thanks Ash! I did add noise last night and that worked, but thanks for these settings. I'll try them. Lucinda