Getting noisy pictures from XL2 at DVinfo.net

Makonnen Woldeab · August 2nd, 2005, 05:44 AM

I was an XL1 user and bought an XL2 recently, but the pictures I am trying are too noisy. I've shot 8 movies with the XL1 and the pictures are crispy and less noise. But I am not sutisfied with the XL2. Is it because I expected more, or every body is experiencing the noisy pictures?

Jay Gladwell · August 2nd, 2005, 06:06 AM

No noise here. We need to know more about the conditions you were shooting under and the settings you were using while shooting.

Jay

Makonnen Woldeab · August 2nd, 2005, 06:27 AM

Thanks, Jay. I tried it by comparing the XL1 and XL2, both from the same distance at outdoor and indoor shooting. The outdoor trial was during a normal day light, medium shot. The indoor was a very tight close-up with a single bulb. the XL2 setting was at its default. The result was a noisy picture of the XL2 and a relatively better picture of the XL1.

Will Griffith · August 2nd, 2005, 06:34 AM

default setting? If you are using anything automatic then it's
probibly adjusting the gain by itself. Use full manual mode, 0db
gain, and light accordingly.

Jay Gladwell · August 2nd, 2005, 06:57 AM

Well, until I could see what you're doing, I have no way of knowing what the problem is. All I can say is I've shot indoors and out, high light and low light, and I'm not getting any noise in my footage.

Even with the default settings, there should not be any noise, especially out side in broad daylight!

Could be you have a faulty camera.

Jay

Ash Greyson · August 2nd, 2005, 06:20 PM

Turn the gain to zero or to -3db... I suspect you are not seeing noise but rather increased detail that can appear as noise to a spoiled eye. Try several things to make the image more to your liking...

1. turn the sharpness down a few notches
2. turn the knee to high and the black to press
3. turn the coring down a couple notches
4. turn the setup level down a couple notches
5. turn the master pedestal down a couple notches

This will get the image closer to the XL1 which has a softer, warmer, less detailed image. As I said above, I am willing to bet you are interpreting the cleaner more detailed pictured of the XL2 as "noisy" because there is suddenly detail in the highlights and shadows that was missing before...

ash =o)

Makonnen Woldeab · August 3rd, 2005, 03:50 PM

Thanks, Ash,
I think you saved me. I am used to the XL1, and am new to XL2. A guy named Kalil from Toronto also is having the same problem and sent me an email. I will try your advice and tell you the result.

Thanks, again.
Mak.

Makonnen Woldeab · August 3rd, 2005, 04:02 PM

Sorry, Will and Jay!

I didn't see your answers and I only gave an answer to Ash.
I usually work with manual setting. But on the Gain I was using definitely Auto. So, you are right it might be the problem. I will let you know the result.

Thank you, all.
Mak.

Makonnen Woldeab · August 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM

Kalil,
Please, refer to what Jay, Will and Ash are advising, and tell us your progress.

Mak.

Makonnen Woldeab · August 5th, 2005, 01:01 PM

I have tried what, you guys - Ash and Will, told me and I am getting better pictures. The main problem was the Gain adjustments. After practicing for few days, I will be starting a new movie.

I am also planning to use my XL1 camera for the General Shots. Can you give me any advice so that both my XL1 and XL2 give me similar pictures.

Another thing for Ash - I have been reading your writings and are really wonderful. They definitely helped me. But I didn't understand "crushed black". What do you mean by that. You repeat it several times.

I thank you, all, for your contribution.

Mak.

Chris Frisella · August 7th, 2005, 10:43 PM

Hey all,
Perhaps im just imagining things, but it seems my pictures might be excessively noisy. I admit I'm new to the camera and not totally sure what I should expect of the picture, but from others' images I've seen, many of mine have made me question if there may be something wrong...

Here's a shot that really shows what im talking about. What do you think?
http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/clutter1.tif

Where it's most objectionable is the wall on the right. Normal? Just a lighting thing maybe?

This was shot 24pa, 0 gain, cine settings, and the rest only slightly tweeked from factory. (i tried the suggestions mentioned above, but this sort of noise/grain was still mostly present)

Here are some others that i have handy for more perspective... they were shot outside on a cloudy but bright day. All the same settings as above:

http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/bumper.tif
http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/Windshield.tif
http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/CarSide.tif

So what's your expert diagnosis?

Jay Gladwell · August 8th, 2005, 05:49 AM

Chris, maybe I'm blind, but I'm not seeing any "noise" in your images.

Jay

Chris Frisella · August 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM

Oh? In that first picture, all the mess on the wall isn't noise? That wall definitety isn't textured or anything in real life. Maybe I'm mistaken on what actual 'noise' looks like. It is true that the blacks in the picture are flat and quite pleasing, but it's in the midtones, the gray areas where you always see a lot of flickering specs. It's not so much the color noise that I'm used to from cheaper cameras, but more like some grain effect that I just cant get rid of. Personally it can be pretty distracting in some scenes. But as I said earlier I'm for your judgement. I may just need to work on my lighting a bit more.

Here's that 'first picture' again:
http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/clutter1.tif

Ash Greyson · August 8th, 2005, 03:53 PM

First off... crushed black = shadowy areas become SOLID black and colors are generally more "poppy" because of this. Are you matching the XL1 or XL1s?

Chris, what you are seeing is not noise at all. That is the XL2 keeping detail information thru highlights and shadows. If you do not like this, you need to first turn the knee to HIGH and the blacks to PRESS. After that, start turning down the master pedestal and setup level. You might also want to turn down the sharpness as well...

ash =o)

Makonnen Woldeab · August 9th, 2005, 05:27 PM

Hi, Ash,

Yes, I am trying to match both cameras (XL1 and XL2), but I find the XL1 more saturated than the XL2.

Mak.

August 2nd, 2005, 05:44 AM	#1
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Getting noisy pictures from XL2 I was an XL1 user and bought an XL2 recently, but the pictures I am trying are too noisy. I've shot 8 movies with the XL1 and the pictures are crispy and less noise. But I am not sutisfied with the XL2. Is it because I expected more, or every body is experiencing the noisy pictures?

August 2nd, 2005, 06:27 AM	#3
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Getting noisy pictures from XL2 Thanks, Jay. I tried it by comparing the XL1 and XL2, both from the same distance at outdoor and indoor shooting. The outdoor trial was during a normal day light, medium shot. The indoor was a very tight close-up with a single bulb. the XL2 setting was at its default. The result was a noisy picture of the XL2 and a relatively better picture of the XL1.

August 2nd, 2005, 06:34 AM	#4
Will Griffith Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tennessee Posts: 164	default setting? If you are using anything automatic then it's probibly adjusting the gain by itself. Use full manual mode, 0db gain, and light accordingly. __________________ will griffith producer/editor

August 3rd, 2005, 03:50 PM	#7
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Getting niosy pictures from XL2 Thanks, Ash, I think you saved me. I am used to the XL1, and am new to XL2. A guy named Kalil from Toronto also is having the same problem and sent me an email. I will try your advice and tell you the result. Thanks, again. Mak.

August 3rd, 2005, 04:02 PM	#8
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Getting noisy pictures Sorry, Will and Jay! I didn't see your answers and I only gave an answer to Ash. I usually work with manual setting. But on the Gain I was using definitely Auto. So, you are right it might be the problem. I will let you know the result. Thank you, all. Mak.

August 2nd, 2005, 06:06 AM	#2
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	No noise here. We need to know more about the conditions you were shooting under and the settings you were using while shooting. Jay

August 2nd, 2005, 06:57 AM	#5
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Well, until I could see what you're doing, I have no way of knowing what the problem is. All I can say is I've shot indoors and out, high light and low light, and I'm not getting any noise in my footage. Even with the default settings, there should not be any noise, especially out side in broad daylight! Could be you have a faulty camera. Jay

August 2nd, 2005, 06:20 PM	#6
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Turn the gain to zero or to -3db... I suspect you are not seeing noise but rather increased detail that can appear as noise to a spoiled eye. Try several things to make the image more to your liking... 1. turn the sharpness down a few notches 2. turn the knee to high and the black to press 3. turn the coring down a couple notches 4. turn the setup level down a couple notches 5. turn the master pedestal down a couple notches This will get the image closer to the XL1 which has a softer, warmer, less detailed image. As I said above, I am willing to bet you are interpreting the cleaner more detailed pictured of the XL2 as "noisy" because there is suddenly detail in the highlights and shadows that was missing before... ash =o)

August 3rd, 2005, 04:12 PM	#9
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Kalil, Please, refer to what Jay, Will and Ash are advising, and tell us your progress. Mak.

August 5th, 2005, 01:01 PM	#10
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Getting noisy pictures I have tried what, you guys - Ash and Will, told me and I am getting better pictures. The main problem was the Gain adjustments. After practicing for few days, I will be starting a new movie. I am also planning to use my XL1 camera for the General Shots. Can you give me any advice so that both my XL1 and XL2 give me similar pictures. Another thing for Ash - I have been reading your writings and are really wonderful. They definitely helped me. But I didn't understand "crushed black". What do you mean by that. You repeat it several times. I thank you, all, for your contribution. Mak.

August 7th, 2005, 10:43 PM	#11
Chris Frisella New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6	Hey all, Perhaps im just imagining things, but it seems my pictures might be excessively noisy. I admit I'm new to the camera and not totally sure what I should expect of the picture, but from others' images I've seen, many of mine have made me question if there may be something wrong... Here's a shot that really shows what im talking about. What do you think? http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/clutter1.tif Where it's most objectionable is the wall on the right. Normal? Just a lighting thing maybe? This was shot 24pa, 0 gain, cine settings, and the rest only slightly tweeked from factory. (i tried the suggestions mentioned above, but this sort of noise/grain was still mostly present) Here are some others that i have handy for more perspective... they were shot outside on a cloudy but bright day. All the same settings as above: http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/bumper.tif http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/Windshield.tif http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/CarSide.tif So what's your expert diagnosis?

August 8th, 2005, 05:49 AM	#12
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Chris, maybe I'm blind, but I'm not seeing any "noise" in your images. Jay

August 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM	#13
Chris Frisella New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 6	Oh? In that first picture, all the mess on the wall isn't noise? That wall definitety isn't textured or anything in real life. Maybe I'm mistaken on what actual 'noise' looks like. It is true that the blacks in the picture are flat and quite pleasing, but it's in the midtones, the gray areas where you always see a lot of flickering specs. It's not so much the color noise that I'm used to from cheaper cameras, but more like some grain effect that I just cant get rid of. Personally it can be pretty distracting in some scenes. But as I said earlier I'm for your judgement. I may just need to work on my lighting a bit more. Here's that 'first picture' again: http://www.upload4free.com/show.php/clutter1.tif

August 8th, 2005, 03:53 PM	#14
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	First off... crushed black = shadowy areas become SOLID black and colors are generally more "poppy" because of this. Are you matching the XL1 or XL1s? Chris, what you are seeing is not noise at all. That is the XL2 keeping detail information thru highlights and shadows. If you do not like this, you need to first turn the knee to HIGH and the blacks to PRESS. After that, start turning down the master pedestal and setup level. You might also want to turn down the sharpness as well... ash =o)

August 9th, 2005, 05:27 PM	#15
Makonnen Woldeab New Boot Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Asmara, Eritrea Posts: 9	Hi, Ash, Yes, I am trying to match both cameras (XL1 and XL2), but I find the XL1 more saturated than the XL2. Mak.