Uncompressed from XL2? at DVinfo.net

Jon Laing · July 20th, 2005, 06:46 PM

I was wondering if there was a way to get uncompressed footage from my XL2. I saw a couple things done with the DVX100 of that nature and i wanted to see what my options are.

Kelly Wilbur · July 20th, 2005, 09:52 PM

Am I wrong in stating that the video on tape in the XL2 is not compressed per se? It is just converted into a digital form (which technically is a form of compression, but not in the sense I believe you are referring to).

Please someone correct me if I am either flat out wrong or explaining this incorrectly.

Thanks,

Kelly

Ash Greyson · July 20th, 2005, 10:01 PM

It is compressed, all DV is... There may be an app that will allow you to capture raw video to hard drive via firewire, I think that is how the do it with the DVX...
never saw the need myself, almost no visual difference and the file sizes become HUGE!

ash =o)

Kyle Ringin · July 20th, 2005, 11:06 PM

Correct - all DV is, by definition compressed using the DV codec. But so is any video that comes out of the firewire port of an (unmodified) miniDV camera - you'll get the same image data whether you record to tape then capture, or capture to a computer through firewire (dropouts aside).

The Reel-stream andromeda works like this http://www.reel-stream.com/andromeda_graphic.php
It intercepts the signal before it gets to the compression stage. You also get higher resolution than DV.

Chris Hurd · July 20th, 2005, 11:51 PM

All DV is compressed at 5:1. My question would be, what would you do with uncompressed, and why do you feel that you want to have it. I'm not sure that you would see any difference in quality, and it would be a bear to store and edit.

James Rhodes · July 21st, 2005, 02:20 PM

DV Keying is a nightmare, and I am also trying to find to get uncompressed into my drives. My thoughts were that if I went straight out of the Analog outputs to an uncompressed card, it would infact be uncompressed. But I heard that DV is compressed coming out if the chips, so the analog source out of the camera is compressed as well. So I am at a loss for what to do. Capturing to an uncompressed card, will however get you into 4:2:2 color space, but don't know if that makes any difference at all.

Chris is there a way to get uncompressed out of the XL2 ? Like the reel-stream ? Trying to key for DV is about 4 times the work than any other video format, like betacam even.

Greg Boston · July 21st, 2005, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rhodes

DV Keying is a nightmare, and I am also trying to find to get uncompressed into my drives. My thoughts were that if I went straight out of the Analog outputs to an uncompressed card, it would infact be uncompressed. But I heard that DV is compressed coming out if the chips, so the analog source out of the camera is compressed as well. So I am at a loss for what to do. Capturing to an uncompressed card, will however get you into 4:2:2 color space, but don't know if that makes any difference at all.

Chris is there a way to get uncompressed out of the XL2 ? Like the reel-stream ? Trying to key for DV is about 4 times the work than any other video format, like betacam even.

You can't get uncompressed out of the XL-2, but there are filters out there that use some good algorithms to bump you into 4:2:2 color which will help with chromakeying. The modification done to the DVX camera was to tap into the data coming straight off the ccd chips before any compression could take place. A lot of the development was helped along by several DV-INFO members in the Alternative Imaging forum.

I would also recommend reading this page for a good understanding of 4:4:4 vs. 4:2:2 vs 4:1:1 vs 4:2:0. A well written article by fellow DV-INFO'er, Graeme Natress.

regards,

-gb-

Chris Hurd · July 22nd, 2005, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rhodes

is there a way to get uncompressed out of the XL2 ? Like the reel-stream ?

That's a question for the folks at Reel Stream!

Ask them directly at http://forum.reel-stream.com/index.php

James Rhodes · August 3rd, 2005, 01:41 PM

I spoke with Jeremy about being a beta tester with my XL2, but he said the testing would not start for sometime, why would they wait when the XL2 would be the prize camera to make 4:4:4 and uncompressed. Anyway, what would be my best route for shooting DV green screen when compositing ?

Jay Gladwell · August 3rd, 2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rhodes

Anyway, what would be my best route for shooting DV green screen when compositing ?

Your best bet is getting good green screen footage and using Serious Magic's Ultra 2--very impressive! Go to their web site, download the demo version and try it out for yourself.

Jay

Declan Smith · August 4th, 2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

You can't get uncompressed out of the XL-2, but there are filters out there that use some good algorithms to bump you into 4:2:2 color which will help with chromakeying.

-gb-

Does anyone know of an upsampling filter for vegas ?

Mathieu Ghekiere · August 4th, 2005, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

My question would be, what would you do with uncompressed, and why do you feel that you want to have it. I'm not sure that you would see any difference in quality, and it would be a bear to store and edit.

Chris, I just today read for the first time about that andromeda system, used on the DVX.
Don't they say you get a higher resolution? Correct me if I'm wrong, because I just read about it quick, so I completely don't know for sure.

If so, if you blow your video up, maybe the extra resolution can be very useful.

Greg Boston · August 4th, 2005, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

Chris, I just today read for the first time about that andromeda system, used on the DVX.
Don't they say you get a higher resolution? Correct me if I'm wrong, because I just read about it quick, so I completely don't know for sure.

If so, if you blow your video up, maybe the extra resolution can be very useful.

You definitely will get higher color resolution. That's the main purpose is to get 4:4:4 uncompressed output from the camera. Otherwise, the unmodified DVX would give 4:1:1 sampiing. Look at the link I posted earlier in this thread if you want to understand what the benefit is.

-gb-

Mathieu Ghekiere · August 4th, 2005, 03:24 PM

But is the bigger resolution also a fact, and if so, is it worth all the trouble and work? Do you get more resolution and if so, is it a buch more, or just a bit?
Thanks,

btw: I myself am not interested in a blowup, I even haven't got the DVX, just interested :-)

EDIT: I did a search on the andromeda, and if it's correct you should have an increased resolution of 720p, if I read correct.
Thanks,

July 20th, 2005, 06:46 PM	#1
Jon Laing Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wall, NJ Posts: 31	Uncompressed from XL2? I was wondering if there was a way to get uncompressed footage from my XL2. I saw a couple things done with the DVX100 of that nature and i wanted to see what my options are. __________________ --Devereaux ]:-( ---> http://geocities.com/anarchist_lb

July 20th, 2005, 09:52 PM	#2
Kelly Wilbur Regular Crew Join Date: May 2005 Location: Indianapolis Indiana Posts: 109	Am I wrong in stating that the video on tape in the XL2 is not compressed per se? It is just converted into a digital form (which technically is a form of compression, but not in the sense I believe you are referring to). Please someone correct me if I am either flat out wrong or explaining this incorrectly. Thanks, Kelly __________________ ------------------------- Partial Equipment List: Canon XL2 w/ 20X zoom Bogen/Manfrotto 516 Pro fluid head Bogen/Manfrotto 3246 legs Panasonic PATC7WMS1 7" LCD PowerMac G5 2.7 GHz OS X Tiger 2 GB RAM, 400 GB SATA ATI Radeon 9600 Dell 2405FPW 24" LCD Final Cut Pro 5.0 Studio

July 20th, 2005, 11:51 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	All DV is compressed at 5:1. My question would be, what would you do with uncompressed, and why do you feel that you want to have it. I'm not sure that you would see any difference in quality, and it would be a bear to store and edit. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 21st, 2005, 02:20 PM	#6
James Rhodes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: United States Posts: 49	DV is bad foor pulling keys DV Keying is a nightmare, and I am also trying to find to get uncompressed into my drives. My thoughts were that if I went straight out of the Analog outputs to an uncompressed card, it would infact be uncompressed. But I heard that DV is compressed coming out if the chips, so the analog source out of the camera is compressed as well. So I am at a loss for what to do. Capturing to an uncompressed card, will however get you into 4:2:2 color space, but don't know if that makes any difference at all. Chris is there a way to get uncompressed out of the XL2 ? Like the reel-stream ? Trying to key for DV is about 4 times the work than any other video format, like betacam even. __________________ To Shoot or to be shot, that is the question!

August 3rd, 2005, 01:41 PM	#9
James Rhodes Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: United States Posts: 49	Yea Reel Stream I spoke with Jeremy about being a beta tester with my XL2, but he said the testing would not start for sometime, why would they wait when the XL2 would be the prize camera to make 4:4:4 and uncompressed. Anyway, what would be my best route for shooting DV green screen when compositing ? __________________ To Shoot or to be shot, that is the question!

July 20th, 2005, 10:01 PM	#3
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	It is compressed, all DV is... There may be an app that will allow you to capture raw video to hard drive via firewire, I think that is how the do it with the DVX... never saw the need myself, almost no visual difference and the file sizes become HUGE! ash =o)

July 20th, 2005, 11:06 PM	#4
Kyle Ringin Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 241	Correct - all DV is, by definition compressed using the DV codec. But so is any video that comes out of the firewire port of an (unmodified) miniDV camera - you'll get the same image data whether you record to tape then capture, or capture to a computer through firewire (dropouts aside). The Reel-stream andromeda works like this http://www.reel-stream.com/andromeda_graphic.php It intercepts the signal before it gets to the compression stage. You also get higher resolution than DV.

August 4th, 2005, 03:24 PM	#14
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	But is the bigger resolution also a fact, and if so, is it worth all the trouble and work? Do you get more resolution and if so, is it a buch more, or just a bit? Thanks, btw: I myself am not interested in a blowup, I even haven't got the DVX, just interested :-) EDIT: I did a search on the andromeda, and if it's correct you should have an increased resolution of 720p, if I read correct. Thanks, Last edited by Mathieu Ghekiere; August 4th, 2005 at 05:23 PM.