To XL2 or Not XL2? at DVinfo.net

Roger Rosales · February 12th, 2010, 06:18 PM

Fellow XL2 users!

I’m stuck in a rut. However, I am leaning more towards the XL2’s side right now. Here’s the skinny:

I want a 7D or T2i. Why? Tapeless, Shallow DoF, Extremely compact with amazing quality, 1080p, 60fps @ 720p (big one) and did I mention tapeless?

Above all, the whole tapeless workflow is honestly the most attractive factor (throw in the quality and it’s just damn right obvious what to buy…if you don’t already own a 4k cam)

Not having to capture footage and being able to edit right away will make my life much easier and much more productive. Sure, I can buy a tapeless system for the XL2 at the same cost of buying a 7D, but that’s just it…that’s all I get. With the 7D I obviously get much more. Not to mention the plethora of problems these add-on tapeless workflows give a lot of users on this forum.

I’ve been doing research and for the cost of the 7D I can purchase a complete steadicam system (arm, vest ant stabilizer), a 9’ jib and a 3x wide lens, or instead of the lens, I can buy a monitor, zoom/focus controller, etc. I can even get a 35mm adapter if I were to opt out for some of the already listed equipment, however, I’ve noticed these adapters soften the footage considerably (at least the less expensive ones).

The main reasons why I feel like retiring the XL2 is because:

1.) Cost of DV tapes
2.) Downtime of having to capture
3.) SD quickly becoming obsolete (main concern)

All of these 3 points are becoming less and less of a problem the more I think about the equipment I can buy with the money. The steadicam will improve my wedding videography considerably and can be used with virtually any camera/camcorder. It’s a solid long term investment.

The jib will carry over anywhere I go with whatever camera I have…it’s a solid long term investment.

The biggest downfall of the XL2 for me at this point is the SD.

With all the equipment I can buy for $1,900 I can deal without the 60fps and the tapeless workflow only if buying long term equipment will benefit me more than a new camera/camcorder.

What’s the life expectancy of XL2 (SD) technology? How far will I/can I possibly go with sticking with the XL2? Is it worth sticking with the XL2?

I would appreciate any unbiased opinions towards the XL2. I love the cam just as much as everyone else here. I need to hear what the pros think is a better investment. Long term equipment or possibly a short term camera hybrid?

The workarounds for the 7D are more expenses to get to where I am with the XL2 (ie, sound recording)

I’m leaning towards the equipment more now than I was a day ago when I was drooling for the 7D, but it’s easy to get carried away with new technology. I need to make a sound investment and not a rushed decision. What’s likely to pay for itself in the long run rather just bring initial satisfaction and then wither away as I do not have cash to buy lenses, sound recorders, etc.

With 2 kids and a wife with my 14 an hour job…it’s a tough blow to the wallet even considering this very upgrade.

Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this! I really appreciate it.

Marco Leavitt · February 15th, 2010, 08:26 PM

Hey Roger,
Are you sure you could shoot a wedding with a still camera in video mode? Personally, I don't think I could pull focus. There are also the audio issues with those cameras. Just saying.

Also, I've shot a few weddings, and as cool as the idea of Steadicam is, I think you really need a crew to incorporate that and get all the coverage you need. The XL2 form factor is perfect for weddings. It's just an opinion, but I think the only thing still cameras are suited for are very controlled situations, such as dramatic material. And of course, you really need to do double system sound with those things.

Andrew Khalil · February 16th, 2010, 12:17 AM

I agree Marco,
I shot quite a few weddings with my XL2 and I loved it. It was with me for 5 years up until I sold it week for the same reasons Roger is considering. I had a friend who only did web work and was looking for a really nice camera, so he made me an offer I liked and I said goodbye. I never once regretted it as my choice - simply an incredible camera.
In all honesty, I still can't find an HD/tapeless camera I like as much as I did my XL2 for these past few years for the budget I have. The feel of it, the location where everything was and the picture was beautiful even though it was only SD. However, I don't believe an SLR will quite fill the same place as the XL2 did for many of the reasons mentioned including audio, the number of lenses you'll need, and the form factor may or may not suit what you're shooting.
In terms of keeping your XL2, I think it would be a good idea to wait until something comes out that you can fully replace it with (unless you don't need it or renting is convenient for you if you do end up needing something). There are plans for a release at NAB, so maybe something will come out that you like more than what's currently around.

Vincent Martinez · February 21st, 2010, 05:28 PM

I have both the 7D and the xl2. For wedding videography, I'm not sure you can pull it off with the 7d, I certainly don't see myself doing it. What lens are you considering ? I would think you'll need the 70-200 IS and the 17-55 IS. Image stabalizer is a must if you're going to shoot handheld, even with some sort of steadicam system.

Even though the the XL2 is SD you can get some great quality footage...as you already know. You can pretty much shoot a wedding with the xl2 right out of the box. Capturing the footage is the only downside I see.

The biggest problem I see with the 7D is pulling the focus, cost of lenses, external mic and memory cards.

I'm not a pro, but that's my $.02 based on having both cameras.

Owen Dawe · February 27th, 2010, 04:12 AM

I don't know that much about the 7D. Check out the audio side of it though . I don't think it has an xlr input. Check out the length of recording time.

Also the 7D is pretty small isn't it? I quite often by the time I fit a sun gun, radio receivers for audio feed, plus a shotgun clamped on somewhere the XL2 is pretty loaded up. Even a Sony Z1 is a bit small. Especially if you need to get to switches in a hurry. Maybe you need both. The XL2 left mounted and running and dart arround with your 7D getting cuttaways.

February 12th, 2010, 06:18 PM	#1
Roger Rosales Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	To XL2 or Not XL2? Fellow XL2 users! I’m stuck in a rut. However, I am leaning more towards the XL2’s side right now. Here’s the skinny: I want a 7D or T2i. Why? Tapeless, Shallow DoF, Extremely compact with amazing quality, 1080p, 60fps @ 720p (big one) and did I mention tapeless? Above all, the whole tapeless workflow is honestly the most attractive factor (throw in the quality and it’s just damn right obvious what to buy…if you don’t already own a 4k cam) Not having to capture footage and being able to edit right away will make my life much easier and much more productive. Sure, I can buy a tapeless system for the XL2 at the same cost of buying a 7D, but that’s just it…that’s all I get. With the 7D I obviously get much more. Not to mention the plethora of problems these add-on tapeless workflows give a lot of users on this forum. I’ve been doing research and for the cost of the 7D I can purchase a complete steadicam system (arm, vest ant stabilizer), a 9’ jib and a 3x wide lens, or instead of the lens, I can buy a monitor, zoom/focus controller, etc. I can even get a 35mm adapter if I were to opt out for some of the already listed equipment, however, I’ve noticed these adapters soften the footage considerably (at least the less expensive ones). The main reasons why I feel like retiring the XL2 is because: 1.) Cost of DV tapes 2.) Downtime of having to capture 3.) SD quickly becoming obsolete (main concern) All of these 3 points are becoming less and less of a problem the more I think about the equipment I can buy with the money. The steadicam will improve my wedding videography considerably and can be used with virtually any camera/camcorder. It’s a solid long term investment. The jib will carry over anywhere I go with whatever camera I have…it’s a solid long term investment. The biggest downfall of the XL2 for me at this point is the SD. With all the equipment I can buy for $1,900 I can deal without the 60fps and the tapeless workflow only if buying long term equipment will benefit me more than a new camera/camcorder. What’s the life expectancy of XL2 (SD) technology? How far will I/can I possibly go with sticking with the XL2? Is it worth sticking with the XL2? I would appreciate any unbiased opinions towards the XL2. I love the cam just as much as everyone else here. I need to hear what the pros think is a better investment. Long term equipment or possibly a short term camera hybrid? The workarounds for the 7D are more expenses to get to where I am with the XL2 (ie, sound recording) I’m leaning towards the equipment more now than I was a day ago when I was drooling for the 7D, but it’s easy to get carried away with new technology. I need to make a sound investment and not a rushed decision. What’s likely to pay for itself in the long run rather just bring initial satisfaction and then wither away as I do not have cash to buy lenses, sound recorders, etc. With 2 kids and a wife with my 14 an hour job…it’s a tough blow to the wallet even considering this very upgrade. Thank you to anyone who took the time to read this! I really appreciate it. __________________ -Roger Rosales www.rogerrosales.com Last edited by Roger Rosales; February 12th, 2010 at 09:58 PM. Reason: missing word in sentence - "not a" in "rushed decision"

February 27th, 2010, 04:12 AM	#5
Owen Dawe Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lake Tarawera, Rotorua, New Zealand Posts: 244	I don't know that much about the 7D. Check out the audio side of it though . I don't think it has an xlr input. Check out the length of recording time. Also the 7D is pretty small isn't it? I quite often by the time I fit a sun gun, radio receivers for audio feed, plus a shotgun clamped on somewhere the XL2 is pretty loaded up. Even a Sony Z1 is a bit small. Especially if you need to get to switches in a hurry. Maybe you need both. The XL2 left mounted and running and dart arround with your 7D getting cuttaways. __________________ Owen

February 15th, 2010, 08:26 PM	#2
Marco Leavitt Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Albany, NY 12210 Posts: 2,652	Hey Roger, Are you sure you could shoot a wedding with a still camera in video mode? Personally, I don't think I could pull focus. There are also the audio issues with those cameras. Just saying. Also, I've shot a few weddings, and as cool as the idea of Steadicam is, I think you really need a crew to incorporate that and get all the coverage you need. The XL2 form factor is perfect for weddings. It's just an opinion, but I think the only thing still cameras are suited for are very controlled situations, such as dramatic material. And of course, you really need to do double system sound with those things.

February 16th, 2010, 12:17 AM	#3
Andrew Khalil Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 424	I agree Marco, I shot quite a few weddings with my XL2 and I loved it. It was with me for 5 years up until I sold it week for the same reasons Roger is considering. I had a friend who only did web work and was looking for a really nice camera, so he made me an offer I liked and I said goodbye. I never once regretted it as my choice - simply an incredible camera. In all honesty, I still can't find an HD/tapeless camera I like as much as I did my XL2 for these past few years for the budget I have. The feel of it, the location where everything was and the picture was beautiful even though it was only SD. However, I don't believe an SLR will quite fill the same place as the XL2 did for many of the reasons mentioned including audio, the number of lenses you'll need, and the form factor may or may not suit what you're shooting. In terms of keeping your XL2, I think it would be a good idea to wait until something comes out that you can fully replace it with (unless you don't need it or renting is convenient for you if you do end up needing something). There are plans for a release at NAB, so maybe something will come out that you like more than what's currently around.

February 21st, 2010, 05:28 PM	#4
Vincent Martinez Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Brighton, Colorado Posts: 49	I have both the 7D and the xl2. For wedding videography, I'm not sure you can pull it off with the 7d, I certainly don't see myself doing it. What lens are you considering ? I would think you'll need the 70-200 IS and the 17-55 IS. Image stabalizer is a must if you're going to shoot handheld, even with some sort of steadicam system. Even though the the XL2 is SD you can get some great quality footage...as you already know. You can pretty much shoot a wedding with the xl2 right out of the box. Capturing the footage is the only downside I see. The biggest problem I see with the 7D is pulling the focus, cost of lenses, external mic and memory cards. I'm not a pro, but that's my $.02 based on having both cameras.