Super 16 or XL2? at DVinfo.net

David Young · July 3rd, 2005, 11:13 PM

Hey everybody, great site.

I'm 24 and fairly new to filmmaking though I've always watched a lot of movies. I've shot a few short films with my handycam (hehe) and editing between the camera and my VCR. So now I'm ready to move up a little in quality. I've done a lot of research and I'm either going to buy an XL2 or a super 16 Bolex. The only reason I'm considering the Bolex is for the faster frame rate capabilites (16 and 20fps). So what I want to know is, can you achieve a similar effect with the XL2, maybe in post? I'm going to be getting an editing system as well and I'm leaning toward Final Cut Pro. Can I speed up and slow down the frame rate in FCP? How does it look?

Thanks for the help.

Ash Greyson · July 3rd, 2005, 11:27 PM

VERY different cameras... the frame rates of 16 and 20 are SLOW not fast. Most Super 16mm will let you shoot up to 50-64fps which will give you smooth slow motion. This effect CAN be emulated with various plug-ins and After Effects.

If you are talking an edit system and FCP there is little reason to get anything but a DV camera. Film has to be deceloped and transferred and that aint cheap!

ash =o)

Chris Hurd · July 3rd, 2005, 11:32 PM

Hi David,

I really don't think you should look at this decision as a question of frame rates (by the way, the ones you list are slower, not faster; slower frame rates achieve fast motion). I think you should be looking at this decision in terms of workflow. Are you ready to assume the expense of shooting in S16, in terms of the cost of the raw film stock, the cost of developing, the continuous cost of shipping film back and forth if you don't have a lab nearby, and the cost of creating a digital intermediate for editing in Final Cut. If you can readily absorb those ongoing expenses (which are not cheap to begin with and will quickly multiply), then I think there's no question that you should go ahead and shoot film. Hope this helps,

David Young · July 3rd, 2005, 11:49 PM

I'm fairly aware of the cost of shooting on film and refering to the lower frame rates as faster was a slip up. Anywho...so can you achieve fast motion in post with an XL2 and FCP. Would I need some other software or can it not be done?

Frankly...the idea of shooting on film is a little daunting and I'd rather get an XL2 but I really need to be able to shoot fast motion for what I want to do. Any ideas?

Thanks again.

Chris Hurd · July 3rd, 2005, 11:55 PM

That's up to Final Cut Pro, not the camcorder, so you should post that question to our Mac Editing forum located at this link:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=30

David Young · July 4th, 2005, 12:01 AM

Thanks a bunch. I didn't even have to ask. I just looked around a bit. Guess I should have done a bit more research. Thanks again.

July 3rd, 2005, 11:13 PM	#1
David Young Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4	Super 16 or XL2? Hey everybody, great site. I'm 24 and fairly new to filmmaking though I've always watched a lot of movies. I've shot a few short films with my handycam (hehe) and editing between the camera and my VCR. So now I'm ready to move up a little in quality. I've done a lot of research and I'm either going to buy an XL2 or a super 16 Bolex. The only reason I'm considering the Bolex is for the faster frame rate capabilites (16 and 20fps). So what I want to know is, can you achieve a similar effect with the XL2, maybe in post? I'm going to be getting an editing system as well and I'm leaning toward Final Cut Pro. Can I speed up and slow down the frame rate in FCP? How does it look? Thanks for the help.

July 3rd, 2005, 11:32 PM	#3
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi David, I really don't think you should look at this decision as a question of frame rates (by the way, the ones you list are slower, not faster; slower frame rates achieve fast motion). I think you should be looking at this decision in terms of workflow. Are you ready to assume the expense of shooting in S16, in terms of the cost of the raw film stock, the cost of developing, the continuous cost of shipping film back and forth if you don't have a lab nearby, and the cost of creating a digital intermediate for editing in Final Cut. If you can readily absorb those ongoing expenses (which are not cheap to begin with and will quickly multiply), then I think there's no question that you should go ahead and shoot film. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 3rd, 2005, 11:55 PM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	That's up to Final Cut Pro, not the camcorder, so you should post that question to our Mac Editing forum located at this link: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=30 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 3rd, 2005, 11:27 PM	#2
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	VERY different cameras... the frame rates of 16 and 20 are SLOW not fast. Most Super 16mm will let you shoot up to 50-64fps which will give you smooth slow motion. This effect CAN be emulated with various plug-ins and After Effects. If you are talking an edit system and FCP there is little reason to get anything but a DV camera. Film has to be deceloped and transferred and that aint cheap! ash =o)

July 3rd, 2005, 11:49 PM	#4
David Young Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4	I'm fairly aware of the cost of shooting on film and refering to the lower frame rates as faster was a slip up. Anywho...so can you achieve fast motion in post with an XL2 and FCP. Would I need some other software or can it not be done? Frankly...the idea of shooting on film is a little daunting and I'd rather get an XL2 but I really need to be able to shoot fast motion for what I want to do. Any ideas? Thanks again.

July 4th, 2005, 12:01 AM	#6
David Young Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4	Thanks a bunch. I didn't even have to ask. I just looked around a bit. Guess I should have done a bit more research. Thanks again.