24fps at DVinfo.net

Matthew Nayman · May 1st, 2005, 01:24 PM

Hey, I just filmed some biking stuff at 24fps with a 2:3 pulldown. (not 2:3:3:2).

I will post it shortly, but I have a question. When transfered to DVD, the horizontal interlace disappear, but on the computer they are still there. Is there any way to maintain my full resolution and get rid of the lines? Or do I have to deinterlace and lose half my res?

Rob Lohman · May 2nd, 2005, 03:15 AM

When you say "on my computer it is still there". How are you viewing this footage?

Matthew Nayman · May 2nd, 2005, 06:33 AM

In both Adobe Premiere, Winamp, Windows Media Player, and Quicktime Veiwer. They all show interlacing lines...

Rob Lohman · May 5th, 2005, 04:42 AM

Premiere will show interlacing if your project is set to interlaced. Make sure
you load the footage into 24P project.

Keep in mind that 24p footage goes through a pulldown process to create
60i on tape. So I don't find it strange that you see interlacing if you watch
a captured piece. You first need to turn it back into 24p (see the premiere
note above) and then output to a true progressive like format (that does
not (re-)introduce the 2:3:3:2 pulldown like the DV format does!) at 23.976
fps or export to MPEG-2 24p (for DVD).

Matthew Nayman · May 5th, 2005, 06:52 AM

Wait, this has always been confusing.

So, I want that "24fps look", but I am going to DVD and Computer, not film...

do I use 2:3 or 2:3:3:2... (I am capturing in a 29.97 timeline)

I knwo this has been done to death, but I keep getting conlficting answers!

Thanks
Matt

Derek Hoffman · May 5th, 2005, 09:42 AM

Okay i have a similar question, i recently filmed a short promo for a church event on my XL2 for my church and i filmed in 24p in 16:9 aspect ratio. I knew i was going to export the finished product to tape because it was such a small project so i opened a 4:3 project in Premiere Pro 1. I captured using a different program in 4:3 so it was stretched, no suprise.My understanding is that when the XL2 recorss in 16:9, it records at a different resolution, 90x480.... right? Well a standard DV project is in 720x480 so when i brought it into the 4:3 project, it read my footage as widescreen and simply blew the image up to fit the 720x480 screen, cropping the side edges. I just used the motion controls to reduce the size to 75% and then it looks like widescreen in the 4:3 screen. I thought all was good until i rendereed it and then all the pixelation was visible. I concluded that because it was compressing a 960x480 widescreen ratio to fit in a 720x480 window it made it look so edgy. If any of you guys know premiere can you help me with this, is there a for sure way to make my project resolution bigger? i think i know how but i dont want to mess around with it if you can tell me how the right way.
This all being said i think i should film in 24p with 2:3:3:2 pulldown, capture in a 29.97 project, deinterlace all the footage, export in 24p. Is there anyway i can make the project resolution bigger than it already is to match my cameras resolution, if not i jcan just film in 4:3 mode and crop the top.
Another thing, i opened a project with all the setting i told you about above but for frame rate options they only have 29.97 and 25p, not 24p (the one i need). so i selected frame mode and the timeline just has frame numbers, not seconds of minutes, just frames. I filmed in 24P with 2:3:3:2 pulldown, hearing that this was the correct way to film when i wanted to edit it right. Can you tell me if i should just put thyis in a 29.97 timeline and then deinterlace it or something, thats just one thing i heard. Thx for your help, the sooner the better.

Richard Hunter · May 5th, 2005, 06:26 PM

Hi Derek. The XL2 CCD captures video at 960x480 in 16:9 mode, but this is downsampled to 720x480 as it is compressed to DV and recorded to tape. You can never access the 960x480 signal so try to ignore this when you set up your project. The setting should be NTSC DV 4:3 or NTSC DV 16:9, both oif which are 720x480.

I am not familiar with Premiere Pro, but I would expect there to be a setting (something like "maintain aspect ratio") that automatically letterboxes a 16:9 clip in a 4:3 project. Maybe you can repost your question on a Premiere forum? This is not an XL2 issue so I think you could get more responses there.

Richard

Matthew Nayman · May 6th, 2005, 06:17 AM

still doesn't cover 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 for a 24p timeline. I read the other 24p post, but got conflicting answers. Which is bets for veiwing on a comp and DVD... not outputting to film.

Rob Lohman · May 7th, 2005, 05:17 AM

If you are editing the footage go with 2:3:3:2. For film out 2:3 might be
interesting, but that should be discussed with the company doing the film out.

Matthew Nayman · May 7th, 2005, 08:46 AM

Okay, so editing on a 29.97 timeline, gow tih 2:3:3:2 ?

Editing on a 24p timeline go with 2:3?

GAHHHH!

Barry Goyette · May 7th, 2005, 05:28 PM

Mathew,

I think you have it backwards...

2:3:3:2--advanced is for use in a 24p (23.97fps) timeline.

2:3 is for use in a 29.97 fps timeline.

(either method will show interlace lines in a 29.97 timeline, but the advanced mode will give you a true 24p experience in a 24 fps timeline.)

For a detailed description of how it all works...see adamwilts page (discussion of 24p in the dvx and xl2)

http://adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#24pRecording

Hope this helps.

Barry

May 1st, 2005, 01:24 PM	#1
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	24fps Hey, I just filmed some biking stuff at 24fps with a 2:3 pulldown. (not 2:3:3:2). I will post it shortly, but I have a question. When transfered to DVD, the horizontal interlace disappear, but on the computer they are still there. Is there any way to maintain my full resolution and get rid of the lines? Or do I have to deinterlace and lose half my res?

May 5th, 2005, 04:42 AM	#4
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Premiere will show interlacing if your project is set to interlaced. Make sure you load the footage into 24P project. Keep in mind that 24p footage goes through a pulldown process to create 60i on tape. So I don't find it strange that you see interlacing if you watch a captured piece. You first need to turn it back into 24p (see the premiere note above) and then output to a true progressive like format (that does not (re-)introduce the 2:3:3:2 pulldown like the DV format does!) at 23.976 fps or export to MPEG-2 24p (for DVD). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 5th, 2005, 09:42 AM	#6
Derek Hoffman New Boot Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 11	More Q's Okay i have a similar question, i recently filmed a short promo for a church event on my XL2 for my church and i filmed in 24p in 16:9 aspect ratio. I knew i was going to export the finished product to tape because it was such a small project so i opened a 4:3 project in Premiere Pro 1. I captured using a different program in 4:3 so it was stretched, no suprise.My understanding is that when the XL2 recorss in 16:9, it records at a different resolution, 90x480.... right? Well a standard DV project is in 720x480 so when i brought it into the 4:3 project, it read my footage as widescreen and simply blew the image up to fit the 720x480 screen, cropping the side edges. I just used the motion controls to reduce the size to 75% and then it looks like widescreen in the 4:3 screen. I thought all was good until i rendereed it and then all the pixelation was visible. I concluded that because it was compressing a 960x480 widescreen ratio to fit in a 720x480 window it made it look so edgy. If any of you guys know premiere can you help me with this, is there a for sure way to make my project resolution bigger? i think i know how but i dont want to mess around with it if you can tell me how the right way. This all being said i think i should film in 24p with 2:3:3:2 pulldown, capture in a 29.97 project, deinterlace all the footage, export in 24p. Is there anyway i can make the project resolution bigger than it already is to match my cameras resolution, if not i jcan just film in 4:3 mode and crop the top. Another thing, i opened a project with all the setting i told you about above but for frame rate options they only have 29.97 and 25p, not 24p (the one i need). so i selected frame mode and the timeline just has frame numbers, not seconds of minutes, just frames. I filmed in 24P with 2:3:3:2 pulldown, hearing that this was the correct way to film when i wanted to edit it right. Can you tell me if i should just put thyis in a 29.97 timeline and then deinterlace it or something, thats just one thing i heard. Thx for your help, the sooner the better.

May 7th, 2005, 05:17 AM	#9
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	If you are editing the footage go with 2:3:3:2. For film out 2:3 might be interesting, but that should be discussed with the company doing the film out. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 2nd, 2005, 03:15 AM	#2
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	When you say "on my computer it is still there". How are you viewing this footage? __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 2nd, 2005, 06:33 AM	#3
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	In both Adobe Premiere, Winamp, Windows Media Player, and Quicktime Veiwer. They all show interlacing lines...

May 5th, 2005, 06:52 AM	#5
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Wait, this has always been confusing. So, I want that "24fps look", but I am going to DVD and Computer, not film... do I use 2:3 or 2:3:3:2... (I am capturing in a 29.97 timeline) I knwo this has been done to death, but I keep getting conlficting answers! Thanks Matt

May 5th, 2005, 06:26 PM	#7
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi Derek. The XL2 CCD captures video at 960x480 in 16:9 mode, but this is downsampled to 720x480 as it is compressed to DV and recorded to tape. You can never access the 960x480 signal so try to ignore this when you set up your project. The setting should be NTSC DV 4:3 or NTSC DV 16:9, both oif which are 720x480. I am not familiar with Premiere Pro, but I would expect there to be a setting (something like "maintain aspect ratio") that automatically letterboxes a 16:9 clip in a 4:3 project. Maybe you can repost your question on a Premiere forum? This is not an XL2 issue so I think you could get more responses there. Richard

May 6th, 2005, 06:17 AM	#8
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	still doesn't cover 2:3 or 2:3:3:2 for a 24p timeline. I read the other 24p post, but got conflicting answers. Which is bets for veiwing on a comp and DVD... not outputting to film.

May 7th, 2005, 08:46 AM	#10
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Okay, so editing on a 29.97 timeline, gow tih 2:3:3:2 ? Editing on a 24p timeline go with 2:3? GAHHHH!

May 7th, 2005, 05:28 PM	#11
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	Mathew, I think you have it backwards... 2:3:3:2--advanced is for use in a 24p (23.97fps) timeline. 2:3 is for use in a 29.97 fps timeline. (either method will show interlace lines in a 29.97 timeline, but the advanced mode will give you a true 24p experience in a 24 fps timeline.) For a detailed description of how it all works...see adamwilts page (discussion of 24p in the dvx and xl2) http://adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#24pRecording Hope this helps. Barry