Setting up the XL2 at DVinfo.net

Matthew Nayman · March 31st, 2005, 11:25 AM

I recently got a chance to play with the XL2 at a store and am renting it for a week before I buy it. It seems promising, yet a little pricey. Anyhoo, I wanted to know if anyone ha a link to a good guide for the setting up the xl2/. I am sure the factory presets are a little wanting.

Does any one have a good guide on how much to soften the image? How to use the press/stretch black features? Other than the Manual of course

Matt

Chris Hurd · March 31st, 2005, 12:40 PM

Actually the out-of-the-box settings aren't bad at all.

Your best bet for learning more (outside this forum, that is) will be my friend Greg Salman's XL2 tutorial DVD at http://www.canondvguide.com/. I hope to have a full review posted here soon.

Kevin Wild · March 31st, 2005, 01:10 PM

No offense to your friend Greg, Chris, but I ordered this DVD. I think it should be known to people that this video is MUCH MORE an overview of the camera and does not get into techniques at all. I was a little disappointed with it as an existing owner to watch 60 minutes of "This is the viewfinder here, these are the XLR in's, etc, etc." About 90% of the stuff can be learned from just reading the manual. There were some tips...but not many.

I hope on future versions he actually gets into shooting tips and user settings and such. For now, it seems it's more like a video that would be used to market the camera. In it's present form, think of it as a "tour" of the camera.

Just my $.02.

Thanks.

Kevin

Chris Hurd · March 31st, 2005, 02:06 PM

Thanks Kevin,

We definitely need to clarify that it is targeted at the very basics... it's pretty much beginners-only material, that's for sure. I don't want to mislead anyone in that regard.

Kevin Kocak · March 31st, 2005, 03:13 PM

Well I would say you pretty much did mislead although it might not have been intentional. He was asking about how much to soften the image and how much to press/stretch blacks "other than the manual".
I would say that is beyond the basic features of the camera.

Matthew Nayman · March 31st, 2005, 03:37 PM

Anyway guys, let's not start a fight.

Thank you for the warning about the video's content. I wouldn't have bought it anyway (who can afford $39 is I am spending so much on the Camera already?), but I appreciate the concern.

To clarify, what I was looking for was a good page or article about how to bes utizilze Canon's camera, preferably from a seasoned user.

What should I look out for when shooting 24p? What settings give the most "filmic" look?

I am jsut looking for a collection of very useful hints and tested methods with the XL2.

Matt

Kevin Wild · March 31st, 2005, 04:19 PM

Matthew, I think you're in the right place for this info...much better than any non-interactive tutorial you can buy. Hopefully you get some good responses here.

For starters, I've found that so much of the "filmic look" is done through lighting. With 16 x 9 and 24, you've taken care of 2 of the main "filmic" characteristics. Light it like film and you'll go a long way with bridging the video/film differences...far more than any settings that Canon provides.

Part of lighting like film means putting contrast in every shot. Have some darks and some lights. However, because of videos shallower dynamic range, be sure to not be "too dark" or "too light." If it's all one uniform light, you start looking very sitcom-ish...

Also, use production techniques that are filmic. USE A TRIPOD! If you are doing pans, it's nice to have the camera follow someone in the frame as you're panning. This helps the viewer not focus on the motion blur of the background.

Depth of field is another huge characteristic of a filmic look. Move the camera back as far as possible and zoom in. Open that iris up all the way...use the ND filter if necessary. Position subjects at least some distance away from the background...

Just a few tips. I guess this post could have been in the film-look area. Maybe others have some actual settings that can help you in the film look department, but they will not be nearly as powerful as old tried and true tips listed above. I've done seminars on this and you'd be amazed at the difference in what you can get with just a GL1 when you walk through the steps. The before and after is astounding...

Hope that helps.

Kevin

Chris Hurd · March 31st, 2005, 04:29 PM

Well, what you've described is exactly the sort of content that I'm trying to get for my XL2 Watchdog site. So if anybody has anything to submit along these lines, I'll be more than happy to add it to the collection of info that's already there.

Armando Ferreira · March 31st, 2005, 08:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Actually the out-of-the-box settings aren't bad at all.

Your best bet for learning more (outside this forum, that is) will be my friend Greg Salman's XL2 tutorial DVD at http://www.canondvguide.com/. I hope to have a full review posted here soon. -->>>

Yeah, I just got his DVD today and OH MY GOD it was the worst money I have ever spent >:( It is totally misleading, I was expecting to actually learn something not have someone read the manual and explain it to me in a visual form. I didn't even finsih the DVD because I was so FURIOUS. If he want's to show his customers service skills, id like a full REFUND. Maybe if I would of spent $15.00 I wouldn't have felt this way, but its WAY TO MUCH money for what you get. :TWO THUMBS DOWN:

Your better off learning from this message forum, I didn't learn a thing from that DVD..

ANYBODY WANT TO BUY IT, excellent for those who dont want to read the instructions $30.00 SHIPPED!

Kevin Wild · March 31st, 2005, 10:12 PM

Okay, you said it a little more bluntly than I, but I agree with the thumbs down unless you don't own the camera, don't have access to one to check out and don't want to read these boards!

Again...just for people who might be interested in it...it's 90% or more just a tour of the features & parts on the camera. Some people may want this if they don't have the camera yet. If you have the XL2 already, you do not need this video...just look at your camera and manual.

Matthew Nayman · March 31st, 2005, 10:37 PM

Thanks for all the advice.

Being a film student, and semi-pro director/cinematographer I am aware of many of the cheats for digital-to-film look, but it always good to hear them again.

This is a good forum, and the people on seem to have respect for eachother.... usually lacking...

Does anyone with the camera have any other useful tips?

Tony Davies-Patrick · April 1st, 2005, 01:43 AM

I was going to buy the XL1s & XL2 tapes off Ebay or the website shown above, but now will not bother. I do have an older XL1 video tape called "THE CANON XL-1 MADE EASY" which although at least gives a better basic guide of how to operate the camera than the Canon instruction manual does, it definitely does not go far enough beyond the very basics.
Not only that, it is by far the worst quality video tape that I've ever watched! If I hadn't already got an XL1s when I bought it, it would have completely put me off buying into the XL system! The picture & sound quality is beyond a joke, and I couldn't believe that such an amateur film could be on general sale. Granted, it is not on DVD, but low quality VHS copies, but apart from some useful information on basic internal menu settings, it truly is an eye-sore to watch and listen to.

I think it would be great for someone to make an interesting, high quality pro-version DVD covering the real-world filming situations – both inside and outdoors, daylight, dusk and night-time shooting, special techniques, lenses, extenders, macro, telephoto, adapter mounts, filters, audio, lighting, favourite internal menu settings, add-ons, stabilisation methods, pro-editing, problem solving, and actual professional tips covering the XL series - including the large array of extra items that turn it into a truly pro-system.

I'm sure such a video sold via this website would sell in bucket loads.

Armando Ferreira · April 1st, 2005, 02:16 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Tony Davies-Patrick :

I think it would be great for someone to make an interesting, high quality pro-version DVD covering the real-world filming situations – both inside and outdoors, daylight, dusk and night-time shooting, special techniques, lenses, extenders, macro, telephoto, adapter mounts, filters, audio, lighting, favourite internal menu settings, add-ons, stabilisation methods, pro-editing, problem solving, and actual professional tips covering the XL series - including the large array of extra items that turn it into a truly pro-system.

I'm sure such a video sold via this website would sell in bucket loads. -->>>

Uh.. That;s what I thought this video was going to be hence the name "Ultimate Guide" To me that is VERY MISLEADING, not to mention the editing was extremelly poor. It surprises me that this guy is "professional". The Voice and mouth movement was so out of sync, it reminded me of those old chinese king kong movies where you see their mouth move and stop but their is still audio playing. Kinda screws with you a bit to the point where you just listen instead of viewing it. In all honesty I stoped watching it about half way through, I can't possibly think I will learn anything out of it. I think the appropriate name for this DVD is XL2 basics. I want a refund!

Matthew Nayman · April 1st, 2005, 07:08 AM

Wow, I'm glad I hit such an exposed nerve *wink*.

Kevin Kocak · April 1st, 2005, 09:59 AM

I think Kevin W provided some good info, but I would like to throw something out there that kind of goes in a different direction. Another thing to consider is adding your film look in post. The XL2 records a very solid image I prefer to capture my footage with as little manipulation as possible. That way you have MUCH more flexibility in post. The 24p provides an excellent starting point and you can achieve almost any look in post that you could by changing settings in the camera. So to me, it only makes sense to do it in post. That is only a personal preference, but I think it is often overlooked.
Another thing to look into if you really want to go for the film look is a mini35 mm adapter so you can use real film lenses. Good Luck!

March 31st, 2005, 11:25 AM	#1
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Setting up the XL2 I recently got a chance to play with the XL2 at a store and am renting it for a week before I buy it. It seems promising, yet a little pricey. Anyhoo, I wanted to know if anyone ha a link to a good guide for the setting up the xl2/. I am sure the factory presets are a little wanting. Does any one have a good guide on how much to soften the image? How to use the press/stretch black features? Other than the Manual of course Matt

March 31st, 2005, 12:40 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Actually the out-of-the-box settings aren't bad at all. Your best bet for learning more (outside this forum, that is) will be my friend Greg Salman's XL2 tutorial DVD at http://www.canondvguide.com/. I hope to have a full review posted here soon. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 31st, 2005, 02:06 PM	#4
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Thanks Kevin, We definitely need to clarify that it is targeted at the very basics... it's pretty much beginners-only material, that's for sure. I don't want to mislead anyone in that regard. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 31st, 2005, 04:29 PM	#8
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Well, what you've described is exactly the sort of content that I'm trying to get for my XL2 Watchdog site. So if anybody has anything to submit along these lines, I'll be more than happy to add it to the collection of info that's already there. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 1st, 2005, 01:43 AM	#12
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	I was going to buy the XL1s & XL2 tapes off Ebay or the website shown above, but now will not bother. I do have an older XL1 video tape called "THE CANON XL-1 MADE EASY" which although at least gives a better basic guide of how to operate the camera than the Canon instruction manual does, it definitely does not go far enough beyond the very basics. Not only that, it is by far the worst quality video tape that I've ever watched! If I hadn't already got an XL1s when I bought it, it would have completely put me off buying into the XL system! The picture & sound quality is beyond a joke, and I couldn't believe that such an amateur film could be on general sale. Granted, it is not on DVD, but low quality VHS copies, but apart from some useful information on basic internal menu settings, it truly is an eye-sore to watch and listen to. I think it would be great for someone to make an interesting, high quality pro-version DVD covering the real-world filming situations – both inside and outdoors, daylight, dusk and night-time shooting, special techniques, lenses, extenders, macro, telephoto, adapter mounts, filters, audio, lighting, favourite internal menu settings, add-ons, stabilisation methods, pro-editing, problem solving, and actual professional tips covering the XL series - including the large array of extra items that turn it into a truly pro-system. I'm sure such a video sold via this website would sell in bucket loads. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

March 31st, 2005, 01:10 PM	#3
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	No offense to your friend Greg, Chris, but I ordered this DVD. I think it should be known to people that this video is MUCH MORE an overview of the camera and does not get into techniques at all. I was a little disappointed with it as an existing owner to watch 60 minutes of "This is the viewfinder here, these are the XLR in's, etc, etc." About 90% of the stuff can be learned from just reading the manual. There were some tips...but not many. I hope on future versions he actually gets into shooting tips and user settings and such. For now, it seems it's more like a video that would be used to market the camera. In it's present form, think of it as a "tour" of the camera. Just my $.02. Thanks. Kevin

March 31st, 2005, 03:13 PM	#5
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	Well I would say you pretty much did mislead although it might not have been intentional. He was asking about how much to soften the image and how much to press/stretch blacks "other than the manual". I would say that is beyond the basic features of the camera.

March 31st, 2005, 03:37 PM	#6
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Anyway guys, let's not start a fight. Thank you for the warning about the video's content. I wouldn't have bought it anyway (who can afford $39 is I am spending so much on the Camera already?), but I appreciate the concern. To clarify, what I was looking for was a good page or article about how to bes utizilze Canon's camera, preferably from a seasoned user. What should I look out for when shooting 24p? What settings give the most "filmic" look? I am jsut looking for a collection of very useful hints and tested methods with the XL2. Matt

March 31st, 2005, 04:19 PM	#7
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Matthew, I think you're in the right place for this info...much better than any non-interactive tutorial you can buy. Hopefully you get some good responses here. For starters, I've found that so much of the "filmic look" is done through lighting. With 16 x 9 and 24, you've taken care of 2 of the main "filmic" characteristics. Light it like film and you'll go a long way with bridging the video/film differences...far more than any settings that Canon provides. Part of lighting like film means putting contrast in every shot. Have some darks and some lights. However, because of videos shallower dynamic range, be sure to not be "too dark" or "too light." If it's all one uniform light, you start looking very sitcom-ish... Also, use production techniques that are filmic. USE A TRIPOD! If you are doing pans, it's nice to have the camera follow someone in the frame as you're panning. This helps the viewer not focus on the motion blur of the background. Depth of field is another huge characteristic of a filmic look. Move the camera back as far as possible and zoom in. Open that iris up all the way...use the ND filter if necessary. Position subjects at least some distance away from the background... Just a few tips. I guess this post could have been in the film-look area. Maybe others have some actual settings that can help you in the film look department, but they will not be nearly as powerful as old tried and true tips listed above. I've done seminars on this and you'd be amazed at the difference in what you can get with just a GL1 when you walk through the steps. The before and after is astounding... Hope that helps. Kevin

March 31st, 2005, 08:56 PM	#9
Armando Ferreira Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: La Mirada Posts: 45	<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : Actually the out-of-the-box settings aren't bad at all. Your best bet for learning more (outside this forum, that is) will be my friend Greg Salman's XL2 tutorial DVD at http://www.canondvguide.com/. I hope to have a full review posted here soon. -->>> Yeah, I just got his DVD today and OH MY GOD it was the worst money I have ever spent >:( It is totally misleading, I was expecting to actually learn something not have someone read the manual and explain it to me in a visual form. I didn't even finsih the DVD because I was so FURIOUS. If he want's to show his customers service skills, id like a full REFUND. Maybe if I would of spent $15.00 I wouldn't have felt this way, but its WAY TO MUCH money for what you get. :TWO THUMBS DOWN: Your better off learning from this message forum, I didn't learn a thing from that DVD.. ANYBODY WANT TO BUY IT, excellent for those who dont want to read the instructions $30.00 SHIPPED!

March 31st, 2005, 10:12 PM	#10
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Okay, you said it a little more bluntly than I, but I agree with the thumbs down unless you don't own the camera, don't have access to one to check out and don't want to read these boards! Again...just for people who might be interested in it...it's 90% or more just a tour of the features & parts on the camera. Some people may want this if they don't have the camera yet. If you have the XL2 already, you do not need this video...just look at your camera and manual.

March 31st, 2005, 10:37 PM	#11
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Thanks for all the advice. Being a film student, and semi-pro director/cinematographer I am aware of many of the cheats for digital-to-film look, but it always good to hear them again. This is a good forum, and the people on seem to have respect for eachother.... usually lacking... Does anyone with the camera have any other useful tips?

April 1st, 2005, 02:16 AM	#13
Armando Ferreira Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: La Mirada Posts: 45	<<<-- Originally posted by Tony Davies-Patrick : I think it would be great for someone to make an interesting, high quality pro-version DVD covering the real-world filming situations – both inside and outdoors, daylight, dusk and night-time shooting, special techniques, lenses, extenders, macro, telephoto, adapter mounts, filters, audio, lighting, favourite internal menu settings, add-ons, stabilisation methods, pro-editing, problem solving, and actual professional tips covering the XL series - including the large array of extra items that turn it into a truly pro-system. I'm sure such a video sold via this website would sell in bucket loads. -->>> Uh.. That;s what I thought this video was going to be hence the name "Ultimate Guide" To me that is VERY MISLEADING, not to mention the editing was extremelly poor. It surprises me that this guy is "professional". The Voice and mouth movement was so out of sync, it reminded me of those old chinese king kong movies where you see their mouth move and stop but their is still audio playing. Kinda screws with you a bit to the point where you just listen instead of viewing it. In all honesty I stoped watching it about half way through, I can't possibly think I will learn anything out of it. I think the appropriate name for this DVD is XL2 basics. I want a refund!

April 1st, 2005, 07:08 AM	#14
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	Wow, I'm glad I hit such an exposed nerve wink.

April 1st, 2005, 09:59 AM	#15
Kevin Kocak Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Tampa, Fl Posts: 149	I think Kevin W provided some good info, but I would like to throw something out there that kind of goes in a different direction. Another thing to consider is adding your film look in post. The XL2 records a very solid image I prefer to capture my footage with as little manipulation as possible. That way you have MUCH more flexibility in post. The 24p provides an excellent starting point and you can achieve almost any look in post that you could by changing settings in the camera. So to me, it only makes sense to do it in post. That is only a personal preference, but I think it is often overlooked. Another thing to look into if you really want to go for the film look is a mini35 mm adapter so you can use real film lenses. Good Luck!