PAL users, using 25 progressive or 50 interlaced? at DVinfo.net

Mark McCarthy · February 24th, 2005, 10:17 AM

Hello all,
I'd like to know just out of interest, what frame rate the majority of you use. As an old XL1S user, and now XL2 user I have always used interlaced (50i) footage.

I am just about (well 2 weeks away) to produce a commerical for a cosmetics company and I thought I might try to shoot it in 25 frames progressive frame rate.

The more I think about it, the more I don't understand why I shouldn't shoot in the progressive mode the entire time!

Apart from having to take care when panning (to try not to go to fast) can someone tell me what disadvantage this mode has, if any!?

I am going to have a play around with it this evening and see how it goes. I as always, appreciate your comments.
regards, sparky

Mathieu Ghekiere · February 24th, 2005, 11:09 AM

Do you know the characteristics from 25P?
HAve you ever played with Frame Mode on your XL1s PAL?
The XL2 should deliver something that looks the same, but at a much higher resolution (progressive).

The advantage is that it looks like 'film'.
for the public it's more an illusion.
Interlaced is more for news work.

Well ultimately, it's a artistic choice you make, and you could always de-interlace afterwards, but if you are sure you want to have the characteristiscs from film, you should film in 25p.
You won't have to render and have the image at full resolution.

And the best thing maybe is indeed just to test and look what you like the most.
Good luck.

Lauri Kettunen · February 24th, 2005, 02:05 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark McCarthy : I as always, appreciate your comments. -->>>

Mark, I run into the same question after I got the XL2 in October. Eventually, I ended up using the progressive mode (with shutter speed 1/50s) all the time, not least for the reason that in the future that gives a better chance to increase the resolution, if needed. I do wildlife filming, so every footage can be unique, and one never knows whether there will be a chance to retake the situation. Progressive mode implies one can, for example, take a footage frame by frame to Photshop and use something like Genuine fractals to increase the resolution.

Richard Hunter · February 24th, 2005, 06:37 PM

It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. Sometimes, the increased temporal resolution of interlaced video may be more appropriate, e.g. if the subject is fast moving you might prefer sharper images rather than motion blur (due to the slow shutter)and judder (due to the low frame rate).

Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking 25p, I just want to point out that it does not always produce the best results. As always, it depends. :)

Richard

Mark McCarthy · February 25th, 2005, 03:59 AM

Hello Lauri, Mark
thanks for your posts.
I had a play with the progressive setting last night. There was a couple of things I didn't realise.
I didn't know you can't use 18db of gain on this setting. The maxium is 12db. Sometimes I shoot conferences and I need to use 18db.

Also I think the camera keeps reverting from 1/50 to 1/25 shutter speed. Do you know why the camera tries to do this?

I also appreciate you need use almost locked off shots to avoid any motion blur. But this must really restrict you when gathering nes style footage or basically folowing any moving action?

For sacrificing these limits, how much difference do you notice in the picture quality?

If you get the chance please have a look at my other posting , 'XL2 footage shot in Africa'. Allthough the images are compressed they still look okay. This was shot in 50i. I'd love to have seen what it may have looked like on 25p.

take care
sparky

February 24th, 2005, 10:17 AM	#1
Mark McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England Posts: 154	PAL users, using 25 progressive or 50 interlaced? Hello all, I'd like to know just out of interest, what frame rate the majority of you use. As an old XL1S user, and now XL2 user I have always used interlaced (50i) footage. I am just about (well 2 weeks away) to produce a commerical for a cosmetics company and I thought I might try to shoot it in 25 frames progressive frame rate. The more I think about it, the more I don't understand why I shouldn't shoot in the progressive mode the entire time! Apart from having to take care when panning (to try not to go to fast) can someone tell me what disadvantage this mode has, if any!? I am going to have a play around with it this evening and see how it goes. I as always, appreciate your comments. regards, sparky

February 24th, 2005, 02:05 PM	#3
Lauri Kettunen Major Player Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Kangasala, Finland Posts: 445	Re: PAL users, using 25 progressive or 50 interlaced? <<<-- Originally posted by Mark McCarthy : I as always, appreciate your comments. -->>> Mark, I run into the same question after I got the XL2 in October. Eventually, I ended up using the progressive mode (with shutter speed 1/50s) all the time, not least for the reason that in the future that gives a better chance to increase the resolution, if needed. I do wildlife filming, so every footage can be unique, and one never knows whether there will be a chance to retake the situation. Progressive mode implies one can, for example, take a footage frame by frame to Photshop and use something like Genuine fractals to increase the resolution.

February 24th, 2005, 11:09 AM	#2
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Do you know the characteristics from 25P? HAve you ever played with Frame Mode on your XL1s PAL? The XL2 should deliver something that looks the same, but at a much higher resolution (progressive). The advantage is that it looks like 'film'. for the public it's more an illusion. Interlaced is more for news work. Well ultimately, it's a artistic choice you make, and you could always de-interlace afterwards, but if you are sure you want to have the characteristiscs from film, you should film in 25p. You won't have to render and have the image at full resolution. And the best thing maybe is indeed just to test and look what you like the most. Good luck.

February 24th, 2005, 06:37 PM	#4
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. Sometimes, the increased temporal resolution of interlaced video may be more appropriate, e.g. if the subject is fast moving you might prefer sharper images rather than motion blur (due to the slow shutter)and judder (due to the low frame rate). Don't get me wrong - I'm not knocking 25p, I just want to point out that it does not always produce the best results. As always, it depends. :) Richard

February 25th, 2005, 03:59 AM	#5
Mark McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England Posts: 154	Hello Lauri, Mark thanks for your posts. I had a play with the progressive setting last night. There was a couple of things I didn't realise. I didn't know you can't use 18db of gain on this setting. The maxium is 12db. Sometimes I shoot conferences and I need to use 18db. Also I think the camera keeps reverting from 1/50 to 1/25 shutter speed. Do you know why the camera tries to do this? I also appreciate you need use almost locked off shots to avoid any motion blur. But this must really restrict you when gathering nes style footage or basically folowing any moving action? For sacrificing these limits, how much difference do you notice in the picture quality? If you get the chance please have a look at my other posting , 'XL2 footage shot in Africa'. Allthough the images are compressed they still look okay. This was shot in 50i. I'd love to have seen what it may have looked like on 25p. take care sparky