XL2 audio

Bill Edmunds · January 17th, 2005, 07:47 AM

In doing research on the XL2, I was shocked to see that you can't have one audio channel adjusted manually while the other channel stays in auto mode. Also, it seems that there is no mic/line switch. Is this true? I can't believe they would leave out something so basic. Just when I think Canon has come of age, they leave out what I would consider essential elements of professional video production.

Pete Bauer · January 17th, 2005, 08:36 AM

Bill,

Here's a lengthy thread on the subject that should answer your questions:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ight=XL2+audio

Cheers,

Don Palomaki · January 18th, 2005, 05:21 AM

It is prosumer and under $5,000. What do you expect?

Bruce S. Yarock · January 18th, 2005, 07:33 AM

Bill,
The mic/line issue is simple to resolve. If you have rca's out of your sound source, you can go directly into the rca inputs on the xl2. If your sound source (board,etc.) has only xlr outs, then you can pick up line/ mic xlr converters for around $35 for the pair. They're only a couple of uinches long, and I got mine from Trew Audio.
Bruce yarock

Bill Edmunds · January 18th, 2005, 08:06 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Palomaki : It is prosumer and under $5,000. What do you expect? -->>>

Seriously??? I expect quality audio features, like the Sony PD150/170 or the Panasonic 100A, which have mic/line capability and INEPENDENT manual/auto audio controls. Being a prosumer cam under $5k means nothing. Canon blew it on these issues. Other companies have proved you can have affordability and the audio controls you need.

Rob Lohman · January 18th, 2005, 08:25 AM

Bill: the XL2 has mic/line capability, only not on the XLR connectors.
This really isn't much of an issue since you want to attach mic's
to it usually. And as others have said, there is a real cheap
solution if you really need a line in on that port.

Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd
want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy).
I don't see the problem here.

But, if such things are too much of a problem for you then this
camera is clearly not for you. Every camera has features that
makes you think, hmmmm, what did they do that. The importance
of these things varies between people.

Bill Edmunds · January 18th, 2005, 08:27 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd
want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy).
I don't see the problem here.-->>>

For me, it's an issue. There are times when I want one channel to be on manual, one on auto. Just a personal thing.

Don Palomaki · January 19th, 2005, 08:37 PM

Bill,

It is the way it is - design trade-offs to meet a price point and target market segment. It appears your desires were not high enough on Canon design trade-off list to make the cut. There are work arounds to address the issue, and working folks will implement them and get on with life, or get a different camcorder if the effort is too much.

Bill Edmunds · January 19th, 2005, 09:02 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Don Palomaki : Bill,

It is the way it is - design trade-offs to meet a price point and target market segment. It appears your desires were not high enough on Canon design trade-off list to make the cut. There are work arounds to address the issue, and working folks will implement them and get on with life, or get a different camcorder if the effort is too much. -->>>

It isn't that the effort is too much. It's just that I'm surprised that such basic features were left of the unit. I find it hard to believe that a mic/line switch is so low on other people's wish lists, but maybe it is.

Aaron Koolen · January 20th, 2005, 05:32 PM

Bill, I think Canon play in a different market. They don't make "pro" cameras - there consumer division makes the XL2 IIRC. Sure you can do pro things with them, but they don't market them as such. The PD170 etc you'll find *is* considered a pro camera by Sony. By Canon not marketing theirs as pro I think it's an excuse for them to leave stuff like Mic/Line out and just fob off pro's who will complain about this stuff due it being standard fare on other cameras (Even cheaper ones).

Seeing as I wasn't in dire need of a new Camera, I've given the XL2 a miss, and can do because of reasons like this.

Aaron

Don Palomaki · January 20th, 2005, 07:18 PM

Canon does the intechangeable lenses, 16x zoom, 72 mm front element, and real 4-chanel audio, (the only one near its price point). The lens and mount mount, with associated coupling to the lens, is a significant manuafacturing cost over the integral lens common to most other consumer/prosumer camcorders. It is all what you want.

For folks who want a built in line-to-mic attenuator on the XLR device, probably could be added as an after market mod (a build-in switch conttrolled 40 dB pad) by someone willing to void their warranty. Have thought about modding my MA-100 to do just that, but have had no pressing reason to do so.

Greg Milneck · January 20th, 2005, 07:31 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Bill: the XL2 has mic/line capability, only not on the XLR connectors.
This really isn't much of an issue since you want to attach mic's to it usually. And as others have said, there is a real cheap solution if you really need a line in on that port.-->>>

I also see this a huge oversight by Canon....all the competing cameras (which also cost less) have these features.

>>>>Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy). I don't see the problem here.>>>>>

Actually it is very common to set CH1 to manual control and CH2 to automatic as a backup channel. I do this all the time when shooting with the Betacam for the various broadcast clients Like E-Entertainment Television and Inside Edition.

Dont understand why this would be omitted.

Dont get me wrong, I love the XL2, but everyday I scratch my head and wonder why!

Boyd Ostroff · January 20th, 2005, 07:33 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Edmunds : There are times when I want one channel to be on manual, one on auto. Just a personal thing. -->>>

I don't think this is so odd myself. When I shoot performances I sometimes use a line level feed from the house board with manual levels on one channel and the camera-mounted mike with auto levels on the other (or vice-versa). The Sony PDX-10 can handle this, as can the PD-150/170. Hard to believe that it would have cost Canon very much to add this capability.

Having said that however, the XL-2 looks like a great camera and if I was in the market I can't imagine that these audio issues would be a deal breaker for me. The progressive scan CCD's, high quality 16:9 and interchangeable lenses are all very nice features.

January 17th, 2005, 07:47 AM	#1
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	XL2 audio - not up to par? In doing research on the XL2, I was shocked to see that you can't have one audio channel adjusted manually while the other channel stays in auto mode. Also, it seems that there is no mic/line switch. Is this true? I can't believe they would leave out something so basic. Just when I think Canon has come of age, they leave out what I would consider essential elements of professional video production.

January 17th, 2005, 08:36 AM	#2
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Bill, Here's a lengthy thread on the subject that should answer your questions: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ight=XL2+audio Cheers, __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

January 18th, 2005, 05:21 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	It is prosumer and under $5,000. What do you expect? __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 18th, 2005, 08:25 AM	#6
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Bill: the XL2 has mic/line capability, only not on the XLR connectors. This really isn't much of an issue since you want to attach mic's to it usually. And as others have said, there is a real cheap solution if you really need a line in on that port. Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy). I don't see the problem here. But, if such things are too much of a problem for you then this camera is clearly not for you. Every camera has features that makes you think, hmmmm, what did they do that. The importance of these things varies between people. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

January 19th, 2005, 08:37 PM	#8
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Bill, It is the way it is - design trade-offs to meet a price point and target market segment. It appears your desires were not high enough on Canon design trade-off list to make the cut. There are work arounds to address the issue, and working folks will implement them and get on with life, or get a different camcorder if the effort is too much. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 18th, 2005, 07:33 AM	#4
Bruce S. Yarock Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pembroke Pines, Fl. Posts: 1,842	Bill, The mic/line issue is simple to resolve. If you have rca's out of your sound source, you can go directly into the rca inputs on the xl2. If your sound source (board,etc.) has only xlr outs, then you can pick up line/ mic xlr converters for around $35 for the pair. They're only a couple of uinches long, and I got mine from Trew Audio. Bruce yarock

January 18th, 2005, 08:06 AM	#5
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	<<<-- Originally posted by Don Palomaki : It is prosumer and under $5,000. What do you expect? -->>> Seriously??? I expect quality audio features, like the Sony PD150/170 or the Panasonic 100A, which have mic/line capability and INEPENDENT manual/auto audio controls. Being a prosumer cam under $5k means nothing. Canon blew it on these issues. Other companies have proved you can have affordability and the audio controls you need.

January 18th, 2005, 08:27 AM	#7
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy). I don't see the problem here.-->>> For me, it's an issue. There are times when I want one channel to be on manual, one on auto. Just a personal thing.

January 19th, 2005, 09:02 PM	#9
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	<<<-- Originally posted by Don Palomaki : Bill, It is the way it is - design trade-offs to meet a price point and target market segment. It appears your desires were not high enough on Canon design trade-off list to make the cut. There are work arounds to address the issue, and working folks will implement them and get on with life, or get a different camcorder if the effort is too much. -->>> It isn't that the effort is too much. It's just that I'm surprised that such basic features were left of the unit. I find it hard to believe that a mic/line switch is so low on other people's wish lists, but maybe it is.

January 20th, 2005, 05:32 PM	#10
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	Bill, I think Canon play in a different market. They don't make "pro" cameras - there consumer division makes the XL2 IIRC. Sure you can do pro things with them, but they don't market them as such. The PD170 etc you'll find is considered a pro camera by Sony. By Canon not marketing theirs as pro I think it's an excuse for them to leave stuff like Mic/Line out and just fob off pro's who will complain about this stuff due it being standard fare on other cameras (Even cheaper ones). Seeing as I wasn't in dire need of a new Camera, I've given the XL2 a miss, and can do because of reasons like this. Aaron __________________ My Website Meat Free Media

January 20th, 2005, 07:18 PM	#11
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	Canon does the intechangeable lenses, 16x zoom, 72 mm front element, and real 4-chanel audio, (the only one near its price point). The lens and mount mount, with associated coupling to the lens, is a significant manuafacturing cost over the integral lens common to most other consumer/prosumer camcorders. It is all what you want. For folks who want a built in line-to-mic attenuator on the XLR device, probably could be added as an after market mod (a build-in switch conttrolled 40 dB pad) by someone willing to void their warranty. Have thought about modding my MA-100 to do just that, but have had no pressing reason to do so. __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

January 20th, 2005, 07:31 PM	#12
Greg Milneck Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 145	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Lohman : Bill: the XL2 has mic/line capability, only not on the XLR connectors. This really isn't much of an issue since you want to attach mic's to it usually. And as others have said, there is a real cheap solution if you really need a line in on that port.-->>> I also see this a huge oversight by Canon....all the competing cameras (which also cost less) have these features. >>>>Usually audio is either in manual or not, not intermixed. You'd want to use proper manual levels anyway (with a sound guy). I don't see the problem here.>>>>> Actually it is very common to set CH1 to manual control and CH2 to automatic as a backup channel. I do this all the time when shooting with the Betacam for the various broadcast clients Like E-Entertainment Television and Inside Edition. Dont understand why this would be omitted. Dont get me wrong, I love the XL2, but everyday I scratch my head and wonder why! __________________ www.digitalfx.tv

January 20th, 2005, 07:33 PM	#13
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,801	<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Edmunds : There are times when I want one channel to be on manual, one on auto. Just a personal thing. -->>> I don't think this is so odd myself. When I shoot performances I sometimes use a line level feed from the house board with manual levels on one channel and the camera-mounted mike with auto levels on the other (or vice-versa). The Sony PDX-10 can handle this, as can the PD-150/170. Hard to believe that it would have cost Canon very much to add this capability. Having said that however, the XL-2 looks like a great camera and if I was in the market I can't imagine that these audio issues would be a deal breaker for me. The progressive scan CCD's, high quality 16:9 and interchangeable lenses are all very nice features.