Canon Removes "Film Grain" from XL2

Frank Aalbers · December 31st, 2004, 12:31 AM

Haha !

Excelent way to check if you are getting an old stock model or a new released one ! :-)

Frank

Donald Pittelli · December 31st, 2004, 06:47 AM

i am wondering because i would think that canon might also have addressed or refined other items on this camera . just my opinion but to remove something that is from the factory would be major .it would only make sense to make other refinements .thanks for the info Mr. Hurd ............ dp

Devin Doyle · December 31st, 2004, 02:29 PM

Has anyone purchased a new XL2 without the film grain feature?According to the updated manual the color bars/film grain button is now just color bars, and then the on/off toggle is still the same. Seems kinda odd that they wouldnt re-assign a function to that button.

At the top of the page of the manual about the feature it reads "recording color bars/audio reference signal." But no mention is made of a tone generator in the text or directions. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with one of the new cameras. I'm going to be placing my XL2 order here in the very near future and am a little offset by this - not that the film grain feature was useful, but that canon would get rid of a feature at the drop of a hat or because they "can't acquire the software anymore." Makes me wonder if I should wait a little longer to see if they refine the camera further or if I should just bite the bullet...what a pickle!

Richard Alvarez · December 31st, 2004, 02:39 PM

Devin,

The choice of when to buy any type of tech gear is always tough. A good rule of thumb is;

If you can wait - do so. It will only get better and cheaper.

If you can make money with it NOW- Buy it NOW, this will offset the purchase price, probably more than the difference in a resale and upgrade at a later date.

My XL2 has film grain, and I can't imagine why I would want to use it.

Chris Hurd · December 31st, 2004, 03:40 PM

Devin...

<< Has anyone purchased a new XL2 without the film grain feature? I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with one of the new cameras. >>

They only just now announced the intent to change. Therefore you'll have to expect some degree of time to pass before the revised model starts shipping. These things don't happen overnight.

It was just wishful thinking on my part that they'd re-map the now-extraneous button to some other function, but as I suspected, it appears that's not going to happen.

Do not expect any other changes or "refinements."

Kevin Wild · December 31st, 2004, 04:10 PM

Hmm, all this seems strange to me. It's odd that so soon after the release they say they're doing this. I wonder if it's something "legal." Did they use film grain effects from another company or something?

Oh well...it doesn't sound like any of us are going to miss it! It just seems odd to me so soon after a release. Surely they did their research before adding it. I bet there is a reason we don't know or may not know about.

Devin Doyle · December 31st, 2004, 06:11 PM

Richard, thanks for the rules of thumb. I pretty much live by those two principles regarding equipment purchase anyhow, but it's nice to be reminded of them.

Chris, the press release from canon made it sound like the change would be pretty immediate:

"The technology that produces the Film Grain feature on the XL2 camcorder is no longer obtainable by Canon. Therefore beginning December 21, 2004 new XL2 models available for sale will not include the Film Grain feature."

Or would those sales be to distributors? Didn't really think about it from that angle. Anyways, this is all very interesting, albeit a small nit-pick about this otherwise great camera.

Don Palomaki · January 1st, 2005, 08:13 AM

I suspect that the change to the camcorder is in firmware, which can be updated by Canon when the unit is sent in for servicing - that was the case with several items with the original XL1.

Sounds like the technology was licensed from another company and that license may have expired. And the other company and Canon could not come to an agreement over price. It may even have been some thing complex like Canon licensed from company XYZ, which over the years, was ultimately bought by Sony (or JVC, etc.).

Didn't one of the Canon Hi8 camcorders in the pre A1/L1 era have a film grain effect?

Jason Hakala · January 7th, 2005, 06:57 PM

does anyone know what they are replacing the film grain button on the xl2 with?

Pete Bauer · January 7th, 2005, 07:15 PM

Welcome Jason,

To the best of anyone's knowledge here, they're going to do nothing with the button. Here's the original thread on the subject:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=Film+grain

Of course, we'd all like to see a neat new function, or at least something from the menus promoted to "button status" but it doesn't look like that'll happen.

Happy Friday!

Jason Hakala · January 7th, 2005, 08:03 PM

thanks pete. pretty odd that canon would take away a useless effect for the camera and replace it with an even more useless button. hehe.

Donald Pittelli · January 7th, 2005, 08:14 PM

if you look at the new PDF manual for the xl2 you will see on page 11 that the new switch is labeled color bars now . dp

Richard Alvarez · January 7th, 2005, 11:00 PM

Odd, what are they labelling as the old color bars button??

Donald Pittelli · January 8th, 2005, 05:00 AM

i will find out in a few days . just ordered one from zotz .dp

Chris Hurd · January 9th, 2005, 07:45 PM

The way it works now is that there are two buttons for toggling the color bars. The first is the old "color bars / film grain" button which is now labelled only as "film grain." Pushing this button places the color baqrs on "standby." The second button is as it always was... the actual on / off toggle for the color bars.

December 31st, 2004, 06:47 AM	#17
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	when will the new xl2 hit market i am wondering because i would think that canon might also have addressed or refined other items on this camera . just my opinion but to remove something that is from the factory would be major .it would only make sense to make other refinements .thanks for the info Mr. Hurd ............ dp __________________ dp

December 31st, 2004, 02:29 PM	#18
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	Has anyone purchased a new XL2 without the film grain feature?According to the updated manual the color bars/film grain button is now just color bars, and then the on/off toggle is still the same. Seems kinda odd that they wouldnt re-assign a function to that button. At the top of the page of the manual about the feature it reads "recording color bars/audio reference signal." But no mention is made of a tone generator in the text or directions. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with one of the new cameras. I'm going to be placing my XL2 order here in the very near future and am a little offset by this - not that the film grain feature was useful, but that canon would get rid of a feature at the drop of a hat or because they "can't acquire the software anymore." Makes me wonder if I should wait a little longer to see if they refine the camera further or if I should just bite the bullet...what a pickle! __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

December 31st, 2004, 03:40 PM	#20
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Devin... << Has anyone purchased a new XL2 without the film grain feature? I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with one of the new cameras. >> They only just now announced the intent to change. Therefore you'll have to expect some degree of time to pass before the revised model starts shipping. These things don't happen overnight. It was just wishful thinking on my part that they'd re-map the now-extraneous button to some other function, but as I suspected, it appears that's not going to happen. Do not expect any other changes or "refinements." __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

December 31st, 2004, 06:11 PM	#22
Devin Doyle Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 188	Richard, thanks for the rules of thumb. I pretty much live by those two principles regarding equipment purchase anyhow, but it's nice to be reminded of them. Chris, the press release from canon made it sound like the change would be pretty immediate: "The technology that produces the Film Grain feature on the XL2 camcorder is no longer obtainable by Canon. Therefore beginning December 21, 2004 new XL2 models available for sale will not include the Film Grain feature." Or would those sales be to distributors? Didn't really think about it from that angle. Anyways, this is all very interesting, albeit a small nit-pick about this otherwise great camera. __________________ http://devin.par-t-com.net

January 1st, 2005, 08:13 AM	#23
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,488	I suspect that the change to the camcorder is in firmware, which can be updated by Canon when the unit is sent in for servicing - that was the case with several items with the original XL1. Sounds like the technology was licensed from another company and that license may have expired. And the other company and Canon could not come to an agreement over price. It may even have been some thing complex like Canon licensed from company XYZ, which over the years, was ultimately bought by Sony (or JVC, etc.). Didn't one of the Canon Hi8 camcorders in the pre A1/L1 era have a film grain effect? __________________ dpalomaki@dspalomaki.com

December 31st, 2004, 12:31 AM	#16
Frank Aalbers Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Oakland,CA Posts: 135	Haha ! Excelent way to check if you are getting an old stock model or a new released one ! :-) Frank

December 31st, 2004, 02:39 PM	#19
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Devin, The choice of when to buy any type of tech gear is always tough. A good rule of thumb is; If you can wait - do so. It will only get better and cheaper. If you can make money with it NOW- Buy it NOW, this will offset the purchase price, probably more than the difference in a resale and upgrade at a later date. My XL2 has film grain, and I can't imagine why I would want to use it.

December 31st, 2004, 04:10 PM	#21
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Hmm, all this seems strange to me. It's odd that so soon after the release they say they're doing this. I wonder if it's something "legal." Did they use film grain effects from another company or something? Oh well...it doesn't sound like any of us are going to miss it! It just seems odd to me so soon after a release. Surely they did their research before adding it. I bet there is a reason we don't know or may not know about.

January 7th, 2005, 06:57 PM	#24
Jason Hakala New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Honolulu, Hi Posts: 21	xl2 film grain? does anyone know what they are replacing the film grain button on the xl2 with?

January 7th, 2005, 07:15 PM	#25
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Welcome Jason, To the best of anyone's knowledge here, they're going to do nothing with the button. Here's the original thread on the subject: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=Film+grain Of course, we'd all like to see a neat new function, or at least something from the menus promoted to "button status" but it doesn't look like that'll happen. Happy Friday! __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

January 7th, 2005, 08:03 PM	#26
Jason Hakala New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Honolulu, Hi Posts: 21	thanks pete. pretty odd that canon would take away a useless effect for the camera and replace it with an even more useless button. hehe.

January 7th, 2005, 08:14 PM	#27
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	no more grain button if you look at the new PDF manual for the xl2 you will see on page 11 that the new switch is labeled color bars now . dp __________________ dp

January 7th, 2005, 11:00 PM	#28
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Odd, what are they labelling as the old color bars button??

January 8th, 2005, 05:00 AM	#29
Donald Pittelli Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: babylon ny Posts: 53	no more grain i will find out in a few days . just ordered one from zotz .dp __________________ dp

January 9th, 2005, 07:45 PM	#30
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	The way it works now is that there are two buttons for toggling the color bars. The first is the old "color bars / film grain" button which is now labelled only as "film grain." Pushing this button places the color baqrs on "standby." The second button is as it always was... the actual on / off toggle for the color bars. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!