Stock Footage Trading?

Oliver Power · December 30th, 2004, 12:14 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Lee : Would it be easier to post preview clips of the footage on an ftp server, then use another method to transfer the files when someone needs a particular one?

I'm just thinking out loud. I think that initially there might not be enough demand/footage to warrant putting everything up. Unless the server will be specifically oriented for requests. -->>>

Guys, I think this might be the ticket. Great idea John. I think the server/bandwidth issue is going to be a real limiting factor, if we are not doing this for money. Here's my suggestion for a workflow:

1. Those who want to participate upload their preview clips (we would need to work out a standard size and codec) as well as post their email address.
2. If you decide you need a clip, then you click on the email link and contact the person who shot the footage directly.
3. These two then work out between themselves getting the footage. Maybe a CD/DVD gets burned and sent, maybe the file is transferred over filesharing, maybe $10 gets exchanged over PayPal for shipping. Thats up to you.

I think if we do this initially, it would really help minimize the amount of effort involved with setting all of this up. What do you guys think?

Oliver

Rhett Allen · December 30th, 2004, 01:29 PM

Nico,

My comment was not intended to insult or offend anyone from the Great Continent or anywhere else. It is just an observation based on my experience in e-commerce businesses.
I do have a good knowledge of geography and have met and enjoyed the companionship of many people (including one girlfriend and two clients) from South Africa (Durbin and Cape Town areas mostly) and god willing, one day I hope to visit there. There are two places on this earth that have fascinated me since childhood more than any other, South America and Africa. I have traveled to Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, and Chile already and although I still have many places yet to see in S.A. I feel I must see my other childhood dream first. (and may actually do it very soon)
Now, as far as scams go, I am not by any means discounting the United greed mongering States of America but a quick look at the PayPal web site will show you what countries are approved for business.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...ntries-outside

Now correct me if I'm wrong but I do not see any African countries listed there. So, although I am a native Texan, we are not ALL as seemingly stupid as our fearless "new-cue-ler" leader. A little arrogant at times maybe, but not necessarily stupid. (although there is a noticeably expanding population of idiots here)
As far as internet scams go though, it has been well documented that Africa (most notably Nigeria and South Africa) does have a high concentration of scammers hailing from there. Maybe it's just the bad publicity they get but as unfortunate as it is, the fact remains, a return address originating there does not hold much value on the open market.

Here are a few samples from the hundreds of thousands of articles documenting my claim.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...2/BU114885.DTL
http://www.etee2k.net/modules.php?na...rder=0&thold=0
http://www.naspa.com.au/anglogold.htm
http://rjohara.net/nigerian-419-frau...ica-fraud.html
http://www.fraudaid.com/ScamSpam/Lot..._sanctus06.htm
http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/...s/nigerian.htm
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/419.htm
http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105921,00.asp

Don't assume that because someone has a comment you don't particularly enjoy, that person is somehow prejudiced or uninformed. I wish it were otherwise but for now it is not.
Best wishes to you and sincerest apologies for offending. Now lets figure out how we can swap some video out there!

Jacob Ehrichs · December 30th, 2004, 09:55 PM

Another option available is a BitTorrent system where you pull the file from all the available sources instead of just one server. Shares the load. A central server could be set up to have preview clips and if the whole money thing is wanted could contain a link to the torrent file after sending a paypal donation. Otherwise just a password protected site so not everyone on the block could use it, hog the bandwidth and aquire the links to the full sized versions.

Nico van Tonder · December 30th, 2004, 10:49 PM

Rhett,

No hard feelings!!

Maybe we South Africans are ultra sensitive to be compared to the rest of Africa.

Africa consists of three ‘universes’ if I may put it that way. The first consists of the Arab states along the Mediterranean, the second consists of the rest of Africa and the third is South Africa.

The second ‘universe’ is the 4th world countries, poverty stricken, does not produce any food, owes billions of dollars (aid which they demand and not beg), does not have a middle class, with a below average infra structure ruled by super rich dictators. The “exception” here is Nigeria who relies totally on oil, who is the leader in Africa in narcotics smuggling, 419-scams, child prostitution here in South Africa, etc., etc.

South Africa on the other hand has a 1st world infra structure, 1st world economy, exports food and has the largest middle class (and growing) of any country in Africa. It used more electrical power than the rest of Africa combined.

That is why illegal immigrants, mainly from Nigeria, takes advantage of our infra structure and economy to commit crimes like the 419-scams, child prostitution, hijackings, narcotics, etc., etc.

If PayPal doen not want to do business with South Africa they are loosing money with their stupidity. So be it – we don’t need them.

May you and your family enjoy a very prosperous 2005.

John Lee · January 6th, 2005, 12:18 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacob Ehrichs : Another option available is a BitTorrent system where you pull the file from all the available sources instead of just one server. Shares the load. A central server could be set up to have preview clips and if the whole money thing is wanted could contain a link to the torrent file after sending a paypal donation. Otherwise just a password protected site so not everyone on the block could use it, hog the bandwidth and aquire the links to the full sized versions. -->>>

I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files.

Jacob Ehrichs · January 6th, 2005, 02:09 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by John Lee :
I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files. -->>>

It would definitely help and it'd be likely there wouldn't be enough to help out a lot but it may be a good idea in conjunction with a standard server setup. That way the always-on server will have the torrent files and it can pull from other sources as they become available. If not, then the server can carry the load. Might just save a little bandwidth on the server folks.

Oliver Power · January 6th, 2005, 02:33 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Jacob Ehrichs : <<<-- Originally posted by John Lee :
I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files. -->>>

It would definitely help and it'd be likely there wouldn't be enough to help out a lot but it may be a good idea in conjunction with a standard server setup. That way the always-on server will have the torrent files and it can pull from other sources as they become available. If not, then the server can carry the load. Might just save a little bandwidth on the server folks. -->>>

Somebody still needs to put up the basic preview server and set up a system for uploading preview movies. Until we even have that, bittorrent, etc. is just wishful thinking. My advice: keep it simple to start, build a following, then upgrade. Anybody out there willing to setup the preview server?

Oliver

Lars Barlow · January 7th, 2005, 03:40 PM

Perhaps the best thing to start with is a question:
Who among us knows what is needed to set up the server?

Let me break this down.

How much space?
What kind of connection?

If any of us know the answer (I don't). Perhaps we can then get something started.

Yi Fong Yu · January 7th, 2005, 07:32 PM

i don't think a ftp server is a good idea because whoever owns the ftp server is providing this service will have to PAY for it one way or another. those of you that own domain names as well as websites and utilize webhosts know exactly what i'm talking about. bandwidth=money pure and simple and one way or another SOMEBODY is paying for all of it!

as for bittorrent... i think that's a more laudible approach... but we're talking about 10+gigabyte source files and not just 100-200mb video files! so even for those that have good bandwidth this is an issue. i can't wait until i get fiber optics in my neighborhood so i can d/l @15mbps and upload @5mpbs! THEN we can share!

thus the easiest conclusion is that we send one another the original DV tapes vid old fashioned snail mail. the reason is that we're not lucasfilm with nearly limitless bandwidth for uploading downloading captured video. heck even they have to pay for it!

i think we can provide some preview pictures or footages of stock stuff and whoever wants it at least cover the shipping fee and a little fee to give the shooter some incentive to continue shooting it in the future. don't just cover ONLY the shipping.

i think this is a tremendously valuable idea but as with many things when it isn't properly organized by entreprenuer-like manners it can fall apart pretty quickly.

Lars Barlow · January 7th, 2005, 09:53 PM

I think that which is written above is exactly right. The best bet is to send tapes.

Perhaps it would be best to create a BBS (good times, good times) with descriptions of what each person has available with contact info for that person so anyone involved could ask for it. A good description may go a long way in saving server space over previews which may becaome cumbersome with sheer numbers.

This would mean that all of us director types may have to go outside our visually thinking minds and lineate a quality description of each clip in a concise manner, but I think that should not be too hard.

Plus a BBS would be way easier to maintain than a server full of clips that someone is going to have to catalogue somehow.

This is my suggestion anyway.

Yi Fong Yu · January 7th, 2005, 10:38 PM

as for providing a small little website to govern these previews and clips i think that can be more manage-able. heck even i am opened to that idea with my site... but a picture is definitely worth a thousand words. must have preview picture/video footage of B-Roll prior to buying.

so let's just do this... whoever wants B-Rolls just post a thread on here. the initial "want to buy" thread will consist of the director outlining what he is looking for. sunset@malibu beach. ok so the hawaii people can go out and grab footage. then the hawaii people can post it on his own website with pictures/previews. if the initial buyer still wants it he can pay for shipping and negotiate footage fee offline. meanwhile, whoever wants sunset footages from hereon can access it on DVI archives =). or somn like that. sorta like music & royalty fees. =). i recommend people don't charge arm&leg. just somn they feel covers the cost of spending a day or two with their expensive gear grabbing B-Roll. it'll be like the "bargain B-Roll" basement or somn... then what happens is big-wigs hollywood will start catching on and hiring all of us... ok, ok ok... i'm getting ahead of ourselves here... ;}

Lars Barlow · January 8th, 2005, 01:33 AM

So, then am I assuming right that the plan is then to post on THIS forum what we want or what we can get.

The only problem with this is that it appears that someone needs to keep track of who has what so that when newly interested individuals come along they can catch on quickly to the system. Everyone here can probably relate to the person who comes along without much experience and wants to get involved but there is so much back information they are unaware of that they feel like they cannot easily participate.

I guess that I feel for this type of venture to work we will need new people from diverse places around the world to get involved. Actually, I guess that I would just like it that way. But, there should be some way for someone who comes along say a year from now to get a good picture of what is available to them allows us all to see what they can also contribute.

Perhaps I am just repeating what Yi just posted in my own words though. The thing is, I really like this idea. It has the potential to provide a lot of us with unique filming experiences and create a B-Roll greater than any of these expensive companies have access to. Heck, this idea has the potential to create a B-Roll package that big studios would envy (again this idea is Yi's but I just like it so much). And it will be a lot of fun.

Oliver Power · January 8th, 2005, 02:57 AM

what about proposing this whole idea to the DVinfo.net webmasters? They have already taken the time to host this site. Perhaps they would be willing to host a 'previews' site for stock footage trading?

Oliver

Brent Marks · January 8th, 2005, 04:03 AM

I have access to some servers and really cheap bandwidth...

I would like to help out at much as I can...

I would also like to contribute to the stock-footage pile.

Canon GL2

and just got in the new Sony HI_DEF 3cohip HDC

resmedia at gmail dot com

Pete Wilie · January 8th, 2005, 12:14 PM

I think you guys have an excellent idea.

What do you think about this approach:

Create a web site that requires subscription/membership:[list=1][*]Previews and searchable DB open to public?
(we might want to discuss the pros and cons of this)[*]Only members can download[*]To become a member you must
a. Pay a small membership fee AND post your stock footage
OR
b. Pay a larger membership fee[*]Memberships would be good for one year[*]If the stock footage is too large to download,
then you must pay an additional fee for media, processing, shipping.[/list=1]
I have some questions:

1. What is the range of sizes of stock footage you expect to make available?
2. What media and formats would/could be used?

December 30th, 2004, 12:14 PM	#16
Oliver Power Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 26	A good compromise, perhaps. <<<-- Originally posted by John Lee : Would it be easier to post preview clips of the footage on an ftp server, then use another method to transfer the files when someone needs a particular one? I'm just thinking out loud. I think that initially there might not be enough demand/footage to warrant putting everything up. Unless the server will be specifically oriented for requests. -->>> Guys, I think this might be the ticket. Great idea John. I think the server/bandwidth issue is going to be a real limiting factor, if we are not doing this for money. Here's my suggestion for a workflow: 1. Those who want to participate upload their preview clips (we would need to work out a standard size and codec) as well as post their email address. 2. If you decide you need a clip, then you click on the email link and contact the person who shot the footage directly. 3. These two then work out between themselves getting the footage. Maybe a CD/DVD gets burned and sent, maybe the file is transferred over filesharing, maybe $10 gets exchanged over PayPal for shipping. Thats up to you. I think if we do this initially, it would really help minimize the amount of effort involved with setting all of this up. What do you guys think? Oliver

December 30th, 2004, 10:49 PM	#19
Nico van Tonder Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Pretoria, South Africa Posts: 33	Rhett, No hard feelings!! Maybe we South Africans are ultra sensitive to be compared to the rest of Africa. Africa consists of three ‘universes’ if I may put it that way. The first consists of the Arab states along the Mediterranean, the second consists of the rest of Africa and the third is South Africa. The second ‘universe’ is the 4th world countries, poverty stricken, does not produce any food, owes billions of dollars (aid which they demand and not beg), does not have a middle class, with a below average infra structure ruled by super rich dictators. The “exception” here is Nigeria who relies totally on oil, who is the leader in Africa in narcotics smuggling, 419-scams, child prostitution here in South Africa, etc., etc. South Africa on the other hand has a 1st world infra structure, 1st world economy, exports food and has the largest middle class (and growing) of any country in Africa. It used more electrical power than the rest of Africa combined. That is why illegal immigrants, mainly from Nigeria, takes advantage of our infra structure and economy to commit crimes like the 419-scams, child prostitution, hijackings, narcotics, etc., etc. If PayPal doen not want to do business with South Africa they are loosing money with their stupidity. So be it – we don’t need them. May you and your family enjoy a very prosperous 2005. __________________ Nico

January 6th, 2005, 12:18 PM	#20
John Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Silver Spring, MD Posts: 152	<<<-- Originally posted by Jacob Ehrichs : Another option available is a BitTorrent system where you pull the file from all the available sources instead of just one server. Shares the load. A central server could be set up to have preview clips and if the whole money thing is wanted could contain a link to the torrent file after sending a paypal donation. Otherwise just a password protected site so not everyone on the block could use it, hog the bandwidth and aquire the links to the full sized versions. -->>> I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files. __________________ John Lee Levelse7en@gmail.com

January 7th, 2005, 03:40 PM	#23
Lars Barlow New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Orem, UT Posts: 22	Does anyone know? Perhaps the best thing to start with is a question: Who among us knows what is needed to set up the server? Let me break this down. How much space? What kind of connection? If any of us know the answer (I don't). Perhaps we can then get something started.

January 7th, 2005, 07:32 PM	#24
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	i don't think a ftp server is a good idea because whoever owns the ftp server is providing this service will have to PAY for it one way or another. those of you that own domain names as well as websites and utilize webhosts know exactly what i'm talking about. bandwidth=money pure and simple and one way or another SOMEBODY is paying for all of it! as for bittorrent... i think that's a more laudible approach... but we're talking about 10+gigabyte source files and not just 100-200mb video files! so even for those that have good bandwidth this is an issue. i can't wait until i get fiber optics in my neighborhood so i can d/l @15mbps and upload @5mpbs! THEN we can share! thus the easiest conclusion is that we send one another the original DV tapes vid old fashioned snail mail. the reason is that we're not lucasfilm with nearly limitless bandwidth for uploading downloading captured video. heck even they have to pay for it! i think we can provide some preview pictures or footages of stock stuff and whoever wants it at least cover the shipping fee and a little fee to give the shooter some incentive to continue shooting it in the future. don't just cover ONLY the shipping. i think this is a tremendously valuable idea but as with many things when it isn't properly organized by entreprenuer-like manners it can fall apart pretty quickly. __________________ bow wow wow

December 30th, 2004, 01:29 PM	#17
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	Nico, My comment was not intended to insult or offend anyone from the Great Continent or anywhere else. It is just an observation based on my experience in e-commerce businesses. I do have a good knowledge of geography and have met and enjoyed the companionship of many people (including one girlfriend and two clients) from South Africa (Durbin and Cape Town areas mostly) and god willing, one day I hope to visit there. There are two places on this earth that have fascinated me since childhood more than any other, South America and Africa. I have traveled to Peru, Ecuador, Bolivia, and Chile already and although I still have many places yet to see in S.A. I feel I must see my other childhood dream first. (and may actually do it very soon) Now, as far as scams go, I am not by any means discounting the United greed mongering States of America but a quick look at the PayPal web site will show you what countries are approved for business. http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr...ntries-outside Now correct me if I'm wrong but I do not see any African countries listed there. So, although I am a native Texan, we are not ALL as seemingly stupid as our fearless "new-cue-ler" leader. A little arrogant at times maybe, but not necessarily stupid. (although there is a noticeably expanding population of idiots here) As far as internet scams go though, it has been well documented that Africa (most notably Nigeria and South Africa) does have a high concentration of scammers hailing from there. Maybe it's just the bad publicity they get but as unfortunate as it is, the fact remains, a return address originating there does not hold much value on the open market. Here are a few samples from the hundreds of thousands of articles documenting my claim. http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg...2/BU114885.DTL http://www.etee2k.net/modules.php?na...rder=0&thold=0 http://www.naspa.com.au/anglogold.htm http://rjohara.net/nigerian-419-frau...ica-fraud.html http://www.fraudaid.com/ScamSpam/Lot..._sanctus06.htm http://www.crimes-of-persuasion.com/...s/nigerian.htm http://www.freemaninstitute.com/419.htm http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,105921,00.asp Don't assume that because someone has a comment you don't particularly enjoy, that person is somehow prejudiced or uninformed. I wish it were otherwise but for now it is not. Best wishes to you and sincerest apologies for offending. Now lets figure out how we can swap some video out there!

December 30th, 2004, 09:55 PM	#18
Jacob Ehrichs Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 169	Another option available is a BitTorrent system where you pull the file from all the available sources instead of just one server. Shares the load. A central server could be set up to have preview clips and if the whole money thing is wanted could contain a link to the torrent file after sending a paypal donation. Otherwise just a password protected site so not everyone on the block could use it, hog the bandwidth and aquire the links to the full sized versions.

January 6th, 2005, 02:09 PM	#21
Jacob Ehrichs Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 169	<<<-- Originally posted by John Lee : I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files. -->>> It would definitely help and it'd be likely there wouldn't be enough to help out a lot but it may be a good idea in conjunction with a standard server setup. That way the always-on server will have the torrent files and it can pull from other sources as they become available. If not, then the server can carry the load. Might just save a little bandwidth on the server folks.

January 6th, 2005, 02:33 PM	#22
Oliver Power Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 26	<<<-- Originally posted by Jacob Ehrichs : <<<-- Originally posted by John Lee : I think this is a good idea, but we would really need to have a substantial base of users to host a lot of files. -->>> It would definitely help and it'd be likely there wouldn't be enough to help out a lot but it may be a good idea in conjunction with a standard server setup. That way the always-on server will have the torrent files and it can pull from other sources as they become available. If not, then the server can carry the load. Might just save a little bandwidth on the server folks. -->>> Somebody still needs to put up the basic preview server and set up a system for uploading preview movies. Until we even have that, bittorrent, etc. is just wishful thinking. My advice: keep it simple to start, build a following, then upgrade. Anybody out there willing to setup the preview server? Oliver

January 7th, 2005, 09:53 PM	#25
Lars Barlow New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Orem, UT Posts: 22	Agreed I think that which is written above is exactly right. The best bet is to send tapes. Perhaps it would be best to create a BBS (good times, good times) with descriptions of what each person has available with contact info for that person so anyone involved could ask for it. A good description may go a long way in saving server space over previews which may becaome cumbersome with sheer numbers. This would mean that all of us director types may have to go outside our visually thinking minds and lineate a quality description of each clip in a concise manner, but I think that should not be too hard. Plus a BBS would be way easier to maintain than a server full of clips that someone is going to have to catalogue somehow. This is my suggestion anyway.

January 7th, 2005, 10:38 PM	#26
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	as for providing a small little website to govern these previews and clips i think that can be more manage-able. heck even i am opened to that idea with my site... but a picture is definitely worth a thousand words. must have preview picture/video footage of B-Roll prior to buying. so let's just do this... whoever wants B-Rolls just post a thread on here. the initial "want to buy" thread will consist of the director outlining what he is looking for. sunset@malibu beach. ok so the hawaii people can go out and grab footage. then the hawaii people can post it on his own website with pictures/previews. if the initial buyer still wants it he can pay for shipping and negotiate footage fee offline. meanwhile, whoever wants sunset footages from hereon can access it on DVI archives =). or somn like that. sorta like music & royalty fees. =). i recommend people don't charge arm&leg. just somn they feel covers the cost of spending a day or two with their expensive gear grabbing B-Roll. it'll be like the "bargain B-Roll" basement or somn... then what happens is big-wigs hollywood will start catching on and hiring all of us... ok, ok ok... i'm getting ahead of ourselves here... ;} __________________ bow wow wow

January 8th, 2005, 01:33 AM	#27
Lars Barlow New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Orem, UT Posts: 22	Uh So, then am I assuming right that the plan is then to post on THIS forum what we want or what we can get. The only problem with this is that it appears that someone needs to keep track of who has what so that when newly interested individuals come along they can catch on quickly to the system. Everyone here can probably relate to the person who comes along without much experience and wants to get involved but there is so much back information they are unaware of that they feel like they cannot easily participate. I guess that I feel for this type of venture to work we will need new people from diverse places around the world to get involved. Actually, I guess that I would just like it that way. But, there should be some way for someone who comes along say a year from now to get a good picture of what is available to them allows us all to see what they can also contribute. Perhaps I am just repeating what Yi just posted in my own words though. The thing is, I really like this idea. It has the potential to provide a lot of us with unique filming experiences and create a B-Roll greater than any of these expensive companies have access to. Heck, this idea has the potential to create a B-Roll package that big studios would envy (again this idea is Yi's but I just like it so much). And it will be a lot of fun.

January 8th, 2005, 02:57 AM	#28
Oliver Power Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 26	what about proposing this whole idea to the DVinfo.net webmasters? They have already taken the time to host this site. Perhaps they would be willing to host a 'previews' site for stock footage trading? Oliver

January 8th, 2005, 04:03 AM	#29
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	I have access to some servers and really cheap bandwidth... I would like to help out at much as I can... I would also like to contribute to the stock-footage pile. Canon GL2 and just got in the new Sony HI_DEF 3cohip HDC resmedia at gmail dot com

January 8th, 2005, 12:14 PM	#30
Pete Wilie Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 331	Excellent Idea! I think you guys have an excellent idea. What do you think about this approach: Create a web site that requires subscription/membership:[list=1][]Previews and searchable DB open to public? (we might want to discuss the pros and cons of this)[]Only members can download[]To become a member you must a. Pay a small membership fee AND post your stock footage OR b. Pay a larger membership fee[]Memberships would be good for one year[]If the stock footage is too large to download, then you must pay an additional fee for media, processing, shipping.[/list=1] I have some questions:* 1. What is the range of sizes of stock footage you expect to make available? 2. What media and formats would/could be used?