Shutter Speeds at DVinfo.net

Dan Weeks · November 15th, 2004, 09:54 PM

Hi, I'm new at this - just bought an XL2, and am putting together a documentary. I have miniDV tape shot on consumer Sony and Panasonic miniDVs that will need to be cut into the XL2 footage. Also some MPEG4 footage shot on spy-type cameras. Which shutter speed should I use on the XL2 - 60i or 30P? Which will best match the the other cameras? What is standard? Final product will be DVD disks to view on tube TVs. Thanks

Chris Hurd · November 15th, 2004, 10:37 PM

Hi Dan, welcome aboard here.

30p and 60i are not shutter speeds; they're frame rates. As far as which one is right for you, I'd like to propose something. Since you have in your posession an XL2 plus all the video you're wanting to match it to, why not take a Sunday afternoon and experiment with your camera. Try out the XL2 in 30p mode and 60i mode and play around with the various settings, and so on -- starting with the preset defaults -- and review your results. You have all the tools at your disposal in order to make this determination. And, you're the only person who is in a position to find out what's right and what's not right for your specific needs. Then, let us know what you come up with. Hope this helps,

Kyle Ringin · November 15th, 2004, 11:18 PM

Dan,
The XL2 footage is going to be vastly different from the mpeg4 footage, and probably noticeably different to the other miniDV footage.

If you want to match the miniDV as close as possible, maybe 60i is best, if you want to use a different look to for creative purposes maybe 30p. Also depending on the content, eg lengthy pans with 25p can look stuttery (not sure about 30p, maybe a bit smoother).

But, as Chris said, the best bet is to try it out for yourself.

Kevin Gilvear · November 16th, 2004, 01:27 AM

On a related note.

I was trying out 25p compared to 50p. I haven't actually filmed to tape yet but from watching on the camera screen the 25p looked more jerky than 50p. I know this is obvious but does it also show up like this on the actual film when recorded this way?

I'll be making some short films and just wondered if it meant I have to change frame rates from scene to scene?
I'll try out for myself soon.

Rob Lohman · November 16th, 2004, 05:57 AM

Yes, 25p is always more "jerky" since the chips are sampling at
half the speed (25 times a second instead of 50 [in your case]).
So this will also happen to your "actual film". But this is also the
way it works on real film (if you have a 1/50th shutter in your case).

Kevin Gilvear · November 16th, 2004, 06:24 AM

so if i use 25p which i'm intending to it should be ok with 1/50th selected?

Rob Lohman · November 16th, 2004, 06:28 AM

Yes, unless you want to capture high speed footage with as less
motion blur as possible, then go to 1/100, 1/250 etc.

Kevin Gilvear · November 16th, 2004, 06:33 AM

thanks rob, most helpful :D

I'm actually going to be experimenting shutter speeds , so i'll probably take up a whole tape but I want to get various effects. I think one that always impressed me (that is probably overused these days now) was Adrian Lyne's use of shutter speeds for "Jacob's Ladder". I think he created those freaky head movements by using a low shutter speed and having the actor move his head really slowly right? then cranked it up in post? I think i'll try and see what I can come up with in future.

November 15th, 2004, 09:54 PM	#1
Dan Weeks New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Crowheart, Wyoming Posts: 5	Shutter Speeds Hi, I'm new at this - just bought an XL2, and am putting together a documentary. I have miniDV tape shot on consumer Sony and Panasonic miniDVs that will need to be cut into the XL2 footage. Also some MPEG4 footage shot on spy-type cameras. Which shutter speed should I use on the XL2 - 60i or 30P? Which will best match the the other cameras? What is standard? Final product will be DVD disks to view on tube TVs. Thanks

November 15th, 2004, 10:37 PM	#2
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Dan, welcome aboard here. 30p and 60i are not shutter speeds; they're frame rates. As far as which one is right for you, I'd like to propose something. Since you have in your posession an XL2 plus all the video you're wanting to match it to, why not take a Sunday afternoon and experiment with your camera. Try out the XL2 in 30p mode and 60i mode and play around with the various settings, and so on -- starting with the preset defaults -- and review your results. You have all the tools at your disposal in order to make this determination. And, you're the only person who is in a position to find out what's right and what's not right for your specific needs. Then, let us know what you come up with. Hope this helps, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 16th, 2004, 05:57 AM	#5
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Yes, 25p is always more "jerky" since the chips are sampling at half the speed (25 times a second instead of 50 [in your case]). So this will also happen to your "actual film". But this is also the way it works on real film (if you have a 1/50th shutter in your case). __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 16th, 2004, 06:28 AM	#7
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Yes, unless you want to capture high speed footage with as less motion blur as possible, then go to 1/100, 1/250 etc. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 15th, 2004, 11:18 PM	#3
Kyle Ringin Major Player Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 241	Dan, The XL2 footage is going to be vastly different from the mpeg4 footage, and probably noticeably different to the other miniDV footage. If you want to match the miniDV as close as possible, maybe 60i is best, if you want to use a different look to for creative purposes maybe 30p. Also depending on the content, eg lengthy pans with 25p can look stuttery (not sure about 30p, maybe a bit smoother). But, as Chris said, the best bet is to try it out for yourself.

November 16th, 2004, 01:27 AM	#4
Kevin Gilvear Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 126	On a related note. I was trying out 25p compared to 50p. I haven't actually filmed to tape yet but from watching on the camera screen the 25p looked more jerky than 50p. I know this is obvious but does it also show up like this on the actual film when recorded this way? I'll be making some short films and just wondered if it meant I have to change frame rates from scene to scene? I'll try out for myself soon.

November 16th, 2004, 06:24 AM	#6
Kevin Gilvear Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 126	so if i use 25p which i'm intending to it should be ok with 1/50th selected?

November 16th, 2004, 06:33 AM	#8
Kevin Gilvear Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 126	thanks rob, most helpful :D I'm actually going to be experimenting shutter speeds , so i'll probably take up a whole tape but I want to get various effects. I think one that always impressed me (that is probably overused these days now) was Adrian Lyne's use of shutter speeds for "Jacob's Ladder". I think he created those freaky head movements by using a low shutter speed and having the actor move his head really slowly right? then cranked it up in post? I think i'll try and see what I can come up with in future.