The best editing software to use with the XL2 at DVinfo.net

Carlos Porras · November 2nd, 2004, 07:02 PM

I would like to conduct an informal "survey" out here...please let me know your opinion...

Before I bought the XL2 I had a GL2 and from day one I always used Adobe Premiere software (v.6.5) as NLE. I never had the need to even upgrade to a newer version... It always worked great...

After I bought the XL2 a few weeks ago, I thought about trying out a newer editing software, mostly one supporting the 24p feature... My default option was Premiere pro 1.5...

Of course the interface and features are different so I had to work extra hard to even find my way around, and I am still trying to... But in general it has been a very painful experience to get it to work right. I am aware that it might only be me, but I have found the following problem:

- After capturing 24p - 16x9 footage the program gets very slow and the sound out of sync for a few seconds and then the image gets stucked. It becomes impossible to work in the timeline as the captured video wont play smoothly. - By the way my computer is a 3Ghtz Pentium 4 media center pc 512MB RAM and 200GB HD-

Again, I dont know if i am doing something wrong (i might) but so much trouble made me come to the internet and try to find our more...

Then I found out at adobe's site (third party hardware compatibility section) that premiere pro 1.5 offers only CONDITIONAL SUPPORT for the Canon XL2....!

Then reading at other threads on the subject at this site, I noticed how many people mostly mentions Vegas 5 and
Apple's Final Cut Pro and very few mention premiere!

So the question I would like to ask to as many of you out there as possible is:

WHAT NLE SOFTWARE ARE YOU CURRENTLY USING WITH YOUR XL2 TO WORK SMOOTHLY EVEN WHEN THE FOOTAGE WAS SHOT AT 24P and 16x9?

Thanks a lot for your feedback!!!!

Barry Green · November 2nd, 2004, 08:30 PM

I use Vegas 5 with the DVX and its anamorphic adapter, in 24P mode. Works flawlessly. Should do the same with the XL2.

Alain Aguilar · November 2nd, 2004, 08:54 PM

Why do people prefer Vegas over the other NLEs?

Jay Gladwell · November 2nd, 2004, 10:02 PM

Because it's more powerful and easier/faster to use. Oh, and it cost much less, too! But it's one of those things you have to try to understand. In fact, you can download a full demo version from Sony's website:

http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...ct.asp?PID=914

Vegas 5.0 works perfectly with the XL2, as if they were made for one another!

Jay

Carlos Porras · November 2nd, 2004, 11:08 PM

Jay:

Thanks for the link. I already downloaded the demo and am checking it out.

Is there any tutorial, guide or online resource you would recommend me to understand how it works? At first sight it looks upsidedown but that is because I am so used to the premiere interface...

Thanks again

Evan Fisher · November 3rd, 2004, 12:43 AM

Vegas seems like the choice if you are already working on a PC. Avid DV express pro is available for PC and Mac (an excellent scaled down piece of Avid software) and Final Cut Pro (Mac Only). These are most definitely the 3 most powerful pieces of "affordable" software out there.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · November 3rd, 2004, 01:05 AM

I've used Avid Xpress DV with the XL2 with no problems whatsoever - the camera was detected straight away and the material was captured flawlessly.

Robin

Jay Gladwell · November 3rd, 2004, 05:48 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos Porras : Jay:

Is there any tutorial, guide or online resource you would recommend me to understand how it works? At first sight it looks upsidedown but that is because I am so used to the premiere interface... -->>>

Carlos, don't look at it like Premiere, that will only confuse you. Most Vegas users who have "switched" say once they "forget" about the system they were using, Vegas proves to to be far more "user-friendly."

You have two options:

Go to the Vegas User's forum at http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co....asp?ForumID=4 This forum is second to none! You can also go to the Vegas forum here at DVi at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisp...?s=&forumid=54

And/or download the .pdf Users' Manual at http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...ad/default.asp

Jay

Pete Bauer · November 3rd, 2004, 09:43 AM

Hi Carlos,

Do I understand that you're actually using PPro 1.5 now and having troubles, or are you capturing to Premiere 6.x and considering which software to buy/upgrade to?

I have an XL2 and although Adobe hasn't yet released specific PPro 1.5 settings for it, I had no difficulty at all with 24p test captures, 24p timeline editing, or exporting to 24p WMV and MPG. I just used the Panasonic 24p capture pre-sets...not even sure that was necesary, but that's what I did. As far as using PPro 1.5 itself, I have found it to be worlds better than the earlier versions. The only bug I've personally run into (and for all I know it may be a problem specific to my system) is that "Export to DVD" locks up part way through the burn. So I use Encore to burn my DVDs.

I believe I've read that 24p 2:3 inherently takes more processing power when editing in a 29.97 timeline, as compared to either using 2:3:3:2 in a 24p timeline because it needs to be re-encoded to get the right fields together. I'm new to 24p so a have a lot to learn myself, but here's a thread that might help a little:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...2&pagenumber=2

Older versions of Premiere don't do pull up/down of 24p, so if you used Premiere 6.x for capture, it doesn't surprise me that 24p footage might be slow or jerky in the timeline. I can't really remember for sure, but I think I may have seen some preview window slowing of 2:3 in PPro 1.5 even on my 3GHz, 2GB-DDR, multi-hard drive system but if so, it wasn't enough to interfere with my editing. I'd recommend playing around with various 2:3 and 2:3:3:2 clips in 24p and 29.92 timelines to see if you like it better than Premiere 6.x.

Also, Adobe products are generally considered to be more demanding of the hardware than their competitors. 512MB of RAM is on the low side for Adobe stuff. I'd recommend an upgrade to at least a GB of RAM and 24p-aware software of your choice. And regardless of which software you pick, getting a second fast hard drive for capturing and temp files will help performance.

I don't know if Vegas is running competitive upgrade offers, but if not, it may be a little costy to make the move. That said, I've never used Vegas but certainly wouldn't want to dissuade you at all from giving it a try if you wish; obviously lots of people like it.

But if money is less of an issue....here are some free bonus comments: If you anticipate just doing straightforward edits, it probably doesn't matter too much which software package you use. But, IMHO, if you'll be wanting really complex effects, the Adobe Video Collection Pro is EXPENSIVE but worth it. I make no bones about my being merely a hobbyist, yet I probably spend more time in After Effects and Audition than I do in PPro -- well worth having them. Since I haven't used Vegas, I really can't compare, but it is hard for me to imagine that it can match the sophisticated cloning, motion tracking, and plethora of other features that the whole (expensive) Collection and bundled 3rd party add-ins offer. Just considering PPro 1.5 vs Vegas to keep it a "fair fight" I think it is probably a personal preference call...these are two big competitors for the same market and neither is likely to significantly outpace the other for long. If one does something new and great, the other will match or leapfrog it in short order.

But if you have PPro 1.5 already, a little more RAM and finding the optimum 24p settings MAY be all that you need for now.

Carlos Porras · November 3rd, 2004, 10:38 AM

Thank you very much Pete for your thoughts. You might be right in that my computer resources might be a little low for pp1.5. However it is amazing how after installing the demo version of vegas, the same footage that could not be played back on premiere was read smoothly by vegas! The only trouble at this point is to get to understand the interface and resources fast enough... but I think I am going to give it a try. At this point that is the least expensive way to go. Thanks again for giving me your opinion.

JAY: THANKS A LOT FOR THE LINKS PROVIDED!!! VERY HELPFUL!

David Clark · November 3rd, 2004, 12:32 PM

Hey guys, what about using Premiere with Matrox hardware? Matrox makes Premiere run much smoother. Any ideas on that? Thanks

Marty Hudzik · November 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by David Clark : Hey guys, what about using Premiere with Matrox hardware? Matrox makes Premiere run much smoother. Any ideas on that? Thanks -->>>

Negative. Matrox does not support 24P at all. Therefore if you use the Matrox card you are forced to work in 60i video only.

Bummer.

Rob Lohman · November 4th, 2004, 03:30 AM

Carlos: check out the following thread in our Vegas forum:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20830

It has a quick reference PDF with all things to get off to a quick
start (including some things you will wonder, like how to splice
a clip in two), links to sites with tutorials and things like that and
some other small tips in the thread itself.

Carlos Porras · November 4th, 2004, 04:48 PM

Thanks a lot Rob!

Jed Burdick · November 18th, 2004, 10:10 PM

"Negative. Matrox does not support 24P at all. Therefore if you use the Matrox card you are forced to work in 60i video only"

I just found this on the Matrox site: http://www.matrox.com/video/products...y_features.cfm

it be cool to tryout (i use PP1.5)

Jed Burdick
www.TheXL2.com

November 2nd, 2004, 07:02 PM	#1
Carlos Porras New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 13	The best editing software to use with the XL2 I would like to conduct an informal "survey" out here...please let me know your opinion... Before I bought the XL2 I had a GL2 and from day one I always used Adobe Premiere software (v.6.5) as NLE. I never had the need to even upgrade to a newer version... It always worked great... After I bought the XL2 a few weeks ago, I thought about trying out a newer editing software, mostly one supporting the 24p feature... My default option was Premiere pro 1.5... Of course the interface and features are different so I had to work extra hard to even find my way around, and I am still trying to... But in general it has been a very painful experience to get it to work right. I am aware that it might only be me, but I have found the following problem: - After capturing 24p - 16x9 footage the program gets very slow and the sound out of sync for a few seconds and then the image gets stucked. It becomes impossible to work in the timeline as the captured video wont play smoothly. - By the way my computer is a 3Ghtz Pentium 4 media center pc 512MB RAM and 200GB HD- Again, I dont know if i am doing something wrong (i might) but so much trouble made me come to the internet and try to find our more... Then I found out at adobe's site (third party hardware compatibility section) that premiere pro 1.5 offers only CONDITIONAL SUPPORT for the Canon XL2....! Then reading at other threads on the subject at this site, I noticed how many people mostly mentions Vegas 5 and Apple's Final Cut Pro and very few mention premiere! So the question I would like to ask to as many of you out there as possible is: WHAT NLE SOFTWARE ARE YOU CURRENTLY USING WITH YOUR XL2 TO WORK SMOOTHLY EVEN WHEN THE FOOTAGE WAS SHOT AT 24P and 16x9? Thanks a lot for your feedback!!!!

November 2nd, 2004, 08:54 PM	#3
Alain Aguilar Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Bergen Posts: 170	Why do people prefer Vegas over the other NLEs? __________________ Alain

November 3rd, 2004, 12:43 AM	#6
Evan Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 137	Vegas seems like the choice if you are already working on a PC. Avid DV express pro is available for PC and Mac (an excellent scaled down piece of Avid software) and Final Cut Pro (Mac Only). These are most definitely the 3 most powerful pieces of "affordable" software out there. __________________ Fisher Media Productions

November 3rd, 2004, 09:43 AM	#9
Pete Bauer Wrangler Join Date: May 2003 Location: Eagle River, AK Posts: 4,100	Hi Carlos, Do I understand that you're actually using PPro 1.5 now and having troubles, or are you capturing to Premiere 6.x and considering which software to buy/upgrade to? I have an XL2 and although Adobe hasn't yet released specific PPro 1.5 settings for it, I had no difficulty at all with 24p test captures, 24p timeline editing, or exporting to 24p WMV and MPG. I just used the Panasonic 24p capture pre-sets...not even sure that was necesary, but that's what I did. As far as using PPro 1.5 itself, I have found it to be worlds better than the earlier versions. The only bug I've personally run into (and for all I know it may be a problem specific to my system) is that "Export to DVD" locks up part way through the burn. So I use Encore to burn my DVDs. I believe I've read that 24p 2:3 inherently takes more processing power when editing in a 29.97 timeline, as compared to either using 2:3:3:2 in a 24p timeline because it needs to be re-encoded to get the right fields together. I'm new to 24p so a have a lot to learn myself, but here's a thread that might help a little: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...2&pagenumber=2 Older versions of Premiere don't do pull up/down of 24p, so if you used Premiere 6.x for capture, it doesn't surprise me that 24p footage might be slow or jerky in the timeline. I can't really remember for sure, but I think I may have seen some preview window slowing of 2:3 in PPro 1.5 even on my 3GHz, 2GB-DDR, multi-hard drive system but if so, it wasn't enough to interfere with my editing. I'd recommend playing around with various 2:3 and 2:3:3:2 clips in 24p and 29.92 timelines to see if you like it better than Premiere 6.x. Also, Adobe products are generally considered to be more demanding of the hardware than their competitors. 512MB of RAM is on the low side for Adobe stuff. I'd recommend an upgrade to at least a GB of RAM and 24p-aware software of your choice. And regardless of which software you pick, getting a second fast hard drive for capturing and temp files will help performance. I don't know if Vegas is running competitive upgrade offers, but if not, it may be a little costy to make the move. That said, I've never used Vegas but certainly wouldn't want to dissuade you at all from giving it a try if you wish; obviously lots of people like it. But if money is less of an issue....here are some free bonus comments: If you anticipate just doing straightforward edits, it probably doesn't matter too much which software package you use. But, IMHO, if you'll be wanting really complex effects, the Adobe Video Collection Pro is EXPENSIVE but worth it. I make no bones about my being merely a hobbyist, yet I probably spend more time in After Effects and Audition than I do in PPro -- well worth having them. Since I haven't used Vegas, I really can't compare, but it is hard for me to imagine that it can match the sophisticated cloning, motion tracking, and plethora of other features that the whole (expensive) Collection and bundled 3rd party add-ins offer. Just considering PPro 1.5 vs Vegas to keep it a "fair fight" I think it is probably a personal preference call...these are two big competitors for the same market and neither is likely to significantly outpace the other for long. If one does something new and great, the other will match or leapfrog it in short order. But if you have PPro 1.5 already, a little more RAM and finding the optimum 24p settings MAY be all that you need for now. __________________ Pete Bauer The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. Albert Einstein Trying to solve a DV mystery? You may find the answer behind the SEARCH function ... or be able to join a discussion already in progress!

November 4th, 2004, 03:30 AM	#13
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Carlos: check out the following thread in our Vegas forum: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=20830 It has a quick reference PDF with all things to get off to a quick start (including some things you will wonder, like how to splice a clip in two), links to sites with tutorials and things like that and some other small tips in the thread itself. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 2nd, 2004, 08:30 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	I use Vegas 5 with the DVX and its anamorphic adapter, in 24P mode. Works flawlessly. Should do the same with the XL2.

November 2nd, 2004, 10:02 PM	#4
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Because it's more powerful and easier/faster to use. Oh, and it cost much less, too! But it's one of those things you have to try to understand. In fact, you can download a full demo version from Sony's website: http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...ct.asp?PID=914 Vegas 5.0 works perfectly with the XL2, as if they were made for one another! Jay

November 2nd, 2004, 11:08 PM	#5
Carlos Porras New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 13	Jay: Thanks for the link. I already downloaded the demo and am checking it out. Is there any tutorial, guide or online resource you would recommend me to understand how it works? At first sight it looks upsidedown but that is because I am so used to the premiere interface... Thanks again

November 3rd, 2004, 01:05 AM	#7
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	I've used Avid Xpress DV with the XL2 with no problems whatsoever - the camera was detected straight away and the material was captured flawlessly. Robin

November 3rd, 2004, 05:48 AM	#8
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	<<<-- Originally posted by Carlos Porras : Jay: Is there any tutorial, guide or online resource you would recommend me to understand how it works? At first sight it looks upsidedown but that is because I am so used to the premiere interface... -->>> Carlos, don't look at it like Premiere, that will only confuse you. Most Vegas users who have "switched" say once they "forget" about the system they were using, Vegas proves to to be far more "user-friendly." You have two options: Go to the Vegas User's forum at http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co....asp?ForumID=4 This forum is second to none! You can also go to the Vegas forum here at DVi at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisp...?s=&forumid=54 And/or download the .pdf Users' Manual at http://mediasoftware.sonypictures.co...ad/default.asp Jay

November 3rd, 2004, 10:38 AM	#10
Carlos Porras New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 13	Thank you very much Pete for your thoughts. You might be right in that my computer resources might be a little low for pp1.5. However it is amazing how after installing the demo version of vegas, the same footage that could not be played back on premiere was read smoothly by vegas! The only trouble at this point is to get to understand the interface and resources fast enough... but I think I am going to give it a try. At this point that is the least expensive way to go. Thanks again for giving me your opinion. JAY: THANKS A LOT FOR THE LINKS PROVIDED!!! VERY HELPFUL!

November 3rd, 2004, 12:32 PM	#11
David Clark Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carrollton, Texas Posts: 145	Hey guys, what about using Premiere with Matrox hardware? Matrox makes Premiere run much smoother. Any ideas on that? Thanks

November 3rd, 2004, 01:04 PM	#12
Marty Hudzik Trustee Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Canton, Ohio Posts: 1,771	<<<-- Originally posted by David Clark : Hey guys, what about using Premiere with Matrox hardware? Matrox makes Premiere run much smoother. Any ideas on that? Thanks -->>> Negative. Matrox does not support 24P at all. Therefore if you use the Matrox card you are forced to work in 60i video only. Bummer.

November 4th, 2004, 04:48 PM	#14
Carlos Porras New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Mexico Posts: 13	Thanks a lot Rob!

November 18th, 2004, 10:10 PM	#15
Jed Burdick New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7	Matrox and 24P "Negative. Matrox does not support 24P at all. Therefore if you use the Matrox card you are forced to work in 60i video only" I just found this on the Matrox site: http://www.matrox.com/video/products...y_features.cfm it be cool to tryout (i use PP1.5) Jed Burdick www.TheXL2.com