The best editing software to use with the XL2

Kevin Chao · November 19th, 2004, 12:22 AM

no love for FCP???

Evan Fisher · November 19th, 2004, 12:48 AM

FCP is great but I still prefer Avid (Adrenalin or better)

Douglas Robbins · November 21st, 2004, 04:38 PM

I have a great amount of love for Final Cut Pro. Of course it requires that you run a Macintosh and for many people who already own PCs they can't afford to shell out another $2-3k for another computer, and then spend, on top of that another $1k for FCP HD. Fair enough.

But all things being equal (assuming you have yet to buy a computer) Final Cut Pro is perhaps the most powerful and easy to use NLE for under $1000. FCP is quickly becoming the standard at many film schools including NYU and UCLA. If you ask film students whether they prefer to edit on FCP or an Avid system, a great majority say they prefer FCP because of its power and ease of use. In fact I have yet to run into a student that says they prefer Avid for any other reason except for resume stuffing. More and more movies are using FCP, including Soderberg's Full Frontal, and Merton's Cold Mountain. A great number TV shows use FCP, including Scrubs, and FCP appears to be very poppular on the reality TV show front;, MTV uses FCP religiously, and IFC used FCP on one of its reality TV shows.

Undoubltedly many people like the Avid system. Avid has been around much longer than FCP and has a near monopoly among professional production companies (although that is quickly changing). But people who like the Avid system, like it because they know it. They're used to it. Theyv'e alwyas used it. But people who like FCP, like it because it is more flexable, easier to use, and tremendously powerful.

As for Vegas, I have no real experience one way or another on that NLE. Vegas has been getting some very good reviews. But I'm not aware of any movies or TV shows being cut on it. At least not yet. And I do not believe that Vegas is part of the curriculum at Film Schools. Perhaps that matters to you perhaps not. Your call.

Douglas

Douglas Robbins · November 23rd, 2004, 01:40 PM

I just read another FCP success story on the 2Pop website found here. http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/2-pop/article_10905.shtml

This is about a film called Primer that won the Grand Jury prize at Sundance this year. This is what the article has to say about when producer/director, Shane Carruth, tried to edit his film for the first time:

Not all of Carruth's desktop shortcuts worked so smoothly. After having the film transferred to Mini DV, the director attempted to edit the entire film on his PC using Adobe Premiere. "It was really naïve on my part to try that. It was terrible. I didn't know your system isn't supposed to crash every 10 minutes," he says. "I had the timecode burned in, thinking that I would be able to go to an edit decision list when we needed to go back to the negative. Premiere is supposed to have that capability, but when you try to use that feature, it manages to mess up the math just enough to make the data unusable."

Fortunately, Sundance came to the rescue. "The day after I found out Primer was going to play at Sundance, I was on a plane to California to get a 35mm blow up done." All of Carruth's footage was scanned at 1920x1080 HD resolution by Hollywood-based MatchFrame Intermediate, which created a digital intermediate from which an edit was conformed using Final Cut Pro. "Because of the problem with Premiere, I had to hand-write where each cut was-and there were about 1,000 cuts-and then input them into a Final Cut Pro system online. Only then was I able to see what Final Cut Pro was capable of, and I realized what a moron I'd been for the last three years!"

Richard Alvarez · November 23rd, 2004, 02:47 PM

Frankly, if you are cutting documentaries and features, FCP pales in comparison to avid. The media management tools are incredibly poor for handling vast ammounts of footage.

Douglas Robbins · November 23rd, 2004, 03:23 PM

If the best argument for Avid is that it has better Media Management, then Avid has indeed conceded the vast landscape of editing features (ease of use, flexibility, effects, cost etc.) to its competition.

Douglas

Thomas Wagner · November 23rd, 2004, 04:00 PM

Avid Xpress Pro thats it. But only the Windows Version. Mac version is to buggy.

For Mac I think FCP is the deal

I worked with both

Thomas

Richard Alvarez · November 23rd, 2004, 05:17 PM

Ease of management is incredibly important. You can't do much if you can't find the footage you need when you need it.
Ask the people who cut features why they don't switch, and that will be high on the list.

Sure, "more and more" films are cut on FCP every day. I'l wager more small indy shops use FCP than AVID.

The recent review of FCP paid it high compliments for becoming "More Avid Like".

Ease of use... FCP finally got around to jkl trimming, an old avid feature that was pioneered by Avid Newscutter.

"Flexibility" - Hmmm, Avid runs on PC and MAC, that's awfully flexible to me. You can use it on either platform. EDL transfer's straight to high end suites. Most FCP editors complain about how hard it is to finish their features on the AVID (Often necessary...)

COST - I think both suites are running at just under a grand right now. Different deals are possible... but the cost is comparable. Perhaps better when you break out the cost of the Boris suite that is included in Avid.

EFFECTS- Both use third party suites. Boris and After Effects are common to both... so thats a wash.

But the vast majority of features and tv series, over 90 percent are still cut on AVIDS.

I've used both. I've watched systems with FCP crash and lockup on supposedly stable macs. I've seen the spinning beach ball of death more times than I care for.

All systems crash, all nle's have flaws, all guns are loaded and all dogs bite. Good to keep that in mind.

November 19th, 2004, 12:48 AM	#17
Evan Fisher Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Los Angeles, Ca. Posts: 137	FCP is great but I still prefer Avid (Adrenalin or better) __________________ Fisher Media Productions

November 23rd, 2004, 01:40 PM	#19
Douglas Robbins Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: san bruno, ca Posts: 60	Another FCP Story I just read another FCP success story on the 2Pop website found here. http://www.uemedia.net/CPC/2-pop/article_10905.shtml This is about a film called Primer that won the Grand Jury prize at Sundance this year. This is what the article has to say about when producer/director, Shane Carruth, tried to edit his film for the first time: Not all of Carruth's desktop shortcuts worked so smoothly. After having the film transferred to Mini DV, the director attempted to edit the entire film on his PC using Adobe Premiere. "It was really naïve on my part to try that. It was terrible. I didn't know your system isn't supposed to crash every 10 minutes," he says. "I had the timecode burned in, thinking that I would be able to go to an edit decision list when we needed to go back to the negative. Premiere is supposed to have that capability, but when you try to use that feature, it manages to mess up the math just enough to make the data unusable." Fortunately, Sundance came to the rescue. "The day after I found out Primer was going to play at Sundance, I was on a plane to California to get a 35mm blow up done." All of Carruth's footage was scanned at 1920x1080 HD resolution by Hollywood-based MatchFrame Intermediate, which created a digital intermediate from which an edit was conformed using Final Cut Pro. "Because of the problem with Premiere, I had to hand-write where each cut was-and there were about 1,000 cuts-and then input them into a Final Cut Pro system online. Only then was I able to see what Final Cut Pro was capable of, and I realized what a moron I'd been for the last three years!"

November 23rd, 2004, 04:00 PM	#22
Thomas Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 48	Avid Xpress Pro Avid Xpress Pro thats it. But only the Windows Version. Mac version is to buggy. For Mac I think FCP is the deal I worked with both Thomas

November 19th, 2004, 12:22 AM	#16
Kevin Chao Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: United States Posts: 37	no love for FCP???

November 21st, 2004, 04:38 PM	#18
Douglas Robbins Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: san bruno, ca Posts: 60	I have a great amount of love for Final Cut Pro. Of course it requires that you run a Macintosh and for many people who already own PCs they can't afford to shell out another $2-3k for another computer, and then spend, on top of that another $1k for FCP HD. Fair enough. But all things being equal (assuming you have yet to buy a computer) Final Cut Pro is perhaps the most powerful and easy to use NLE for under $1000. FCP is quickly becoming the standard at many film schools including NYU and UCLA. If you ask film students whether they prefer to edit on FCP or an Avid system, a great majority say they prefer FCP because of its power and ease of use. In fact I have yet to run into a student that says they prefer Avid for any other reason except for resume stuffing. More and more movies are using FCP, including Soderberg's Full Frontal, and Merton's Cold Mountain. A great number TV shows use FCP, including Scrubs, and FCP appears to be very poppular on the reality TV show front;, MTV uses FCP religiously, and IFC used FCP on one of its reality TV shows. Undoubltedly many people like the Avid system. Avid has been around much longer than FCP and has a near monopoly among professional production companies (although that is quickly changing). But people who like the Avid system, like it because they know it. They're used to it. Theyv'e alwyas used it. But people who like FCP, like it because it is more flexable, easier to use, and tremendously powerful. As for Vegas, I have no real experience one way or another on that NLE. Vegas has been getting some very good reviews. But I'm not aware of any movies or TV shows being cut on it. At least not yet. And I do not believe that Vegas is part of the curriculum at Film Schools. Perhaps that matters to you perhaps not. Your call. Douglas

November 23rd, 2004, 02:47 PM	#20
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Frankly, if you are cutting documentaries and features, FCP pales in comparison to avid. The media management tools are incredibly poor for handling vast ammounts of footage.

November 23rd, 2004, 03:23 PM	#21
Douglas Robbins Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: san bruno, ca Posts: 60	If the best argument for Avid is that it has better Media Management, then Avid has indeed conceded the vast landscape of editing features (ease of use, flexibility, effects, cost etc.) to its competition. Douglas

November 23rd, 2004, 05:17 PM	#23
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Ease of management is incredibly important. You can't do much if you can't find the footage you need when you need it. Ask the people who cut features why they don't switch, and that will be high on the list. Sure, "more and more" films are cut on FCP every day. I'l wager more small indy shops use FCP than AVID. The recent review of FCP paid it high compliments for becoming "More Avid Like". Ease of use... FCP finally got around to jkl trimming, an old avid feature that was pioneered by Avid Newscutter. "Flexibility" - Hmmm, Avid runs on PC and MAC, that's awfully flexible to me. You can use it on either platform. EDL transfer's straight to high end suites. Most FCP editors complain about how hard it is to finish their features on the AVID (Often necessary...) COST - I think both suites are running at just under a grand right now. Different deals are possible... but the cost is comparable. Perhaps better when you break out the cost of the Boris suite that is included in Avid. EFFECTS- Both use third party suites. Boris and After Effects are common to both... so thats a wash. But the vast majority of features and tv series, over 90 percent are still cut on AVIDS. I've used both. I've watched systems with FCP crash and lockup on supposedly stable macs. I've seen the spinning beach ball of death more times than I care for. All systems crash, all nle's have flaws, all guns are loaded and all dogs bite. Good to keep that in mind.