Circular polarizer and ND filters = grain

Mark McCarthy · November 4th, 2004, 04:15 AM

Hi Clayton
No I kept the internal pictures settings as they came out of the box. I didn't have time to experiment with them. I only got the XL2 the day before I left!
It would be interesting to get some feedback on what picture settings XL2 users have opted for.
Enjoy your camera in Africa.
Mark

Clayton Hairs · November 4th, 2004, 08:33 AM

just to add to my last bleet...I've been playing around with my XL2 today (just prior to a shoot I have) and have noticed that indeed as Mark has mentioned there is significant 'noise' in the darker areas of the image. I'm shooting with the new 20x lens and have noticed that this only seems to happen when the maxiumum ND is selected 1/64th ... it becomes really noticable when I used some of the custom presents particularly those that crush the blacks...it's a real shame since it was one of the drawcards for me of the XL2 (after shooting with the single ND option on the XL1 for toooo long!)...I'm kinda cornered into buying a matte box since there are times shooting (part. in Africa) where it just is too bright to use only the single (lesser) ND on the 20x lens and still get some nice depth of field/throwing-the-background-out type shots...guess we're beginning to discover the shortcomings of an otherwise great machine ????????

Clayton Hairs · November 4th, 2004, 08:37 AM

just to add to my last bleet...I've been playing around with my XL2 today (just prior to the shoot I mentioned in earlier post) and have noticed that indeed, as Mark has mentioned, there is significant 'noise' in the darker areas of the image. For the record I'm shooting with the new 20x lens and have noticed that this only seems to happen when the maxiumum ND is selected i.e. 1/64th ... it becomes really noticable when I used some of the custom presents particularly those that crush the blacks...it's a real shame since it was one of the drawcards for me in pursuading me to buy the XL2 (after shooting with the single ND option on the XL1 for toooo long!)...

I feel a bit miffed thinking that I"m kinda cornered into buying a matte box (to add additional ND along with the VITAL polar) since there are times shooting (part. in Africa) where it just is too bright to use only the single (lesser) ND on the 20x lens and still get some nice depth of field/throwing-the-background-out type shots...guess we're beginning to discover the shortcomings of an otherwise great machine ????????

Clayton Hairs · November 4th, 2004, 08:41 AM

sorry just forgot to add in the last post that all the grain I found in the image had NOTHING to do with the polar filter - I wasn't shooting with one on at all in the test...

Anyone with thoughts or advice will be martyred...and def. not killed ;) for their efforts

Jeff Donald · November 4th, 2004, 09:00 AM

In digital, noise is always more pronounced in the shadows. Crush the blacks in the camera and noise will be very evident. I prefer to shoot the scene as normal or even over exposed (but not clipping the highlights.) In post I will alter the blacks to suite my needs and have much less noise than in doing it in camera. But in my experience this is nothing unique to the XL2, but all digital cameras in this range (prosumer) do this.

David Lach · November 4th, 2004, 09:15 AM

I'm not too familiar with this Jeff. What settings exactly tend to crush blacks aside from stretch/press and how do you set it on the XL2 to get the less noise possible in dark areas?

I feel like a novice but I don't really have a great deal of experience with video and I'm learning about all those settings with the XL2, something I didn't have to worry about with film.

Nice range of adjustments, but in the end I just want the cleanest looking image, so that it is not awful looking when projected on a big screen. Digital noise is definitelly a concern here.

Jeff Donald · November 4th, 2004, 09:21 AM

I try to avoid deep shadows as much as possible when shooting. I try to make the picture as light as possible, without clipping highlights, by adjusting the aperture and shutter speeds. In post I will selectively darken the shadows in FCP or AE. This won't work in all situations, but can be used very effectively in situations that permit a lot of post work.

David Lach · November 4th, 2004, 10:09 AM

So you light with a very low contrast ratio I guess? Do you take extra precautions with on-camera settings like master pedestal, setup level, coring and blacks, or your rule of thumb is just to never let the IRE level go too low on the waveform monitor?

November 4th, 2004, 09:00 AM	#20
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	In digital, noise is always more pronounced in the shadows. Crush the blacks in the camera and noise will be very evident. I prefer to shoot the scene as normal or even over exposed (but not clipping the highlights.) In post I will alter the blacks to suite my needs and have much less noise than in doing it in camera. But in my experience this is nothing unique to the XL2, but all digital cameras in this range (prosumer) do this. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 4th, 2004, 09:21 AM	#22
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	I try to avoid deep shadows as much as possible when shooting. I try to make the picture as light as possible, without clipping highlights, by adjusting the aperture and shutter speeds. In post I will selectively darken the shadows in FCP or AE. This won't work in all situations, but can be used very effectively in situations that permit a lot of post work. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

November 4th, 2004, 04:15 AM	#16
Mark McCarthy Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Westcliff-On-Sea, Essex, England Posts: 154	Hi Clayton No I kept the internal pictures settings as they came out of the box. I didn't have time to experiment with them. I only got the XL2 the day before I left! It would be interesting to get some feedback on what picture settings XL2 users have opted for. Enjoy your camera in Africa. Mark

November 4th, 2004, 08:33 AM	#17
Clayton Hairs New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 12	just to add to my last bleet...I've been playing around with my XL2 today (just prior to a shoot I have) and have noticed that indeed as Mark has mentioned there is significant 'noise' in the darker areas of the image. I'm shooting with the new 20x lens and have noticed that this only seems to happen when the maxiumum ND is selected 1/64th ... it becomes really noticable when I used some of the custom presents particularly those that crush the blacks...it's a real shame since it was one of the drawcards for me of the XL2 (after shooting with the single ND option on the XL1 for toooo long!)...I'm kinda cornered into buying a matte box since there are times shooting (part. in Africa) where it just is too bright to use only the single (lesser) ND on the 20x lens and still get some nice depth of field/throwing-the-background-out type shots...guess we're beginning to discover the shortcomings of an otherwise great machine ????????

November 4th, 2004, 08:37 AM	#18
Clayton Hairs New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 12	just to add to my last bleet...I've been playing around with my XL2 today (just prior to the shoot I mentioned in earlier post) and have noticed that indeed, as Mark has mentioned, there is significant 'noise' in the darker areas of the image. For the record I'm shooting with the new 20x lens and have noticed that this only seems to happen when the maxiumum ND is selected i.e. 1/64th ... it becomes really noticable when I used some of the custom presents particularly those that crush the blacks...it's a real shame since it was one of the drawcards for me in pursuading me to buy the XL2 (after shooting with the single ND option on the XL1 for toooo long!)... I feel a bit miffed thinking that I"m kinda cornered into buying a matte box (to add additional ND along with the VITAL polar) since there are times shooting (part. in Africa) where it just is too bright to use only the single (lesser) ND on the 20x lens and still get some nice depth of field/throwing-the-background-out type shots...guess we're beginning to discover the shortcomings of an otherwise great machine ????????

November 4th, 2004, 08:41 AM	#19
Clayton Hairs New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: London, UK Posts: 12	sorry just forgot to add in the last post that all the grain I found in the image had NOTHING to do with the polar filter - I wasn't shooting with one on at all in the test... Anyone with thoughts or advice will be martyred...and def. not killed ;) for their efforts

November 4th, 2004, 09:15 AM	#21
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	I'm not too familiar with this Jeff. What settings exactly tend to crush blacks aside from stretch/press and how do you set it on the XL2 to get the less noise possible in dark areas? I feel like a novice but I don't really have a great deal of experience with video and I'm learning about all those settings with the XL2, something I didn't have to worry about with film. Nice range of adjustments, but in the end I just want the cleanest looking image, so that it is not awful looking when projected on a big screen. Digital noise is definitelly a concern here.

November 4th, 2004, 10:09 AM	#23
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	So you light with a very low contrast ratio I guess? Do you take extra precautions with on-camera settings like master pedestal, setup level, coring and blacks, or your rule of thumb is just to never let the IRE level go too low on the waveform monitor?