24p questions

[Tony Tibbetts]

Just remember if you shoot in 30p and attempt to do a film out at some point you are hosed.

[John L. Miller]

Originally Posted by Adam Bray

You see TONS of blur in movies. You just don't notice it too much because they attempt to hide it by shooting from certain angles and tracking subjects during pans. It's part of the art.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say whoever told you to shoot 24P and up the shutter does not know what they are talking about. No point in shooting 24P if you're going to crank up the shutter. That defeats the whole purpose to me. You might as well just shoot 60i then. That's my opinion.

Just shoot 24P, 1/48 and pay attention to your angles. Make sure you have a subject to follow on pans.

When I say stuccado look, I refer to a look as though the picture hangs for an instant several times on a pan. I have no problem with MOTION BLUR. I do not see Tons of hang in films. I like the 24P look very much, But, maybe I wasn't clear enough explaining the issue. The hanging, like it moves in steps instead of smoothly is my problem. Thanks. j

[Josh Bass]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding. . .do you mean "hangs" as in, when you pan, the picture doesn't change at a corresponding speed, like it lags, and then moves a few beats later? If so, that sounds like what happens when you're on a tripod, panning, with image stabilization turned on. The IS thinks your pan is the camera shaking, and tries to correct it.

If you just mean strobing, that's just how progressive modes look when panning past certain things and at certain speeds. . .even in 30p (it's the lack of interlace that does it, NOT the framerate). Watch TV/MOvies, you'll see the same thing; it's just like someone said, your attention is usually on whatever is motivating the pan (following someone walking), rather than the background behind them, which probably IS strobing.

[Jack Barker]

Hear versions of this question a lot. How are you viewing the results, that you find unsatisfactory? If you are watching this on your computer monitor, these are NOT the same results that you will see on your TV set. If you shoot 24p, burn it to a DVD and then watch it, it will have been converted to 60i, the only thing your SD television can display. It won't look like it's been shot in 60i, but it will be 60i.

Upping the shutter speed to solve "staccato" problems is utter nonsense. The more you raise the shutter speed, the more it looks like the combat scenes in Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, etc. - e.g. very staccato, but for an effect. Use 24p - 1/48, or 30p - 1/60.

I started off with this camera as a 24p fanboy - I had to have that "film look". But I am becoming increasingly enamoured of 30p. It still looks closer to film than video, but it's smoother than 24p.

[Ben Winter]

And above all, the motion on a CRT and LCD is different than that of a projector--I just saw my short film on a 40' screen projected and the frame cadence was soo much better looking--24p, but it seemed so much more impressive.

[Jack Barker]

Ben - film, or digital projection?

[Alan James]

You have to understand that the only reason 24 looks jittery is because most people play it back at 30 fps with a 2:3:3:2 or 2:3 pulldown added. ANY frame rate with an added pull down will look jittery NO MATTER WHAT. If you shoot a frame rate you have to play back that footage at the same frame rate at which you recored it. With 24p the only really practical way is to transfer it to film and project it in a theater. ANY tv or computer monitor you watch it on will be either 30p 60i or 60p (for the most part). There are very few 24p monitors, so a pulldown is usually added (and the monitors that do have 24p are a bit pricey).

So consider where it will most likely be shown. If you shoot 30p or 60i it can only ever be on video (unless you cheat). but if you shoot at 24p you can adapt it to any format later, the same way major motion pictures do. And of course use a 1/48 (180 degree) shutter to take out the motion blur. Motion blur isn't always a bad thing like most people think. If you have no motion blur it looks a bit stop motiony and thats annoying after a while. have fun and good luck.

[Greg Boston]

The other thing folks forget to realize. 24P looks smoother when projected in a theater because the theater is DARK. That makes the iris in our eyes open up and then persistence of vision fills in the gaps between the 48fps projection rate (each frame is displayed twice).

-gb-

[John Hudson]

The staccato of 24p ?

If you are panning on a subject matter; you'll be fine visually

If you're panning on nothing; there are formulas for shutter speed. I've never heard of the apprehension to shoot 24p for fear of strobing

Learn how to use the camera and it'll be kind to you ! Even the Arri's suffer from this phenomenon. Slow down your pans or ceneter on an object doing the panning (a car or bike rider, et al)

.02

[Ash Greyson]

Hudson is correct, if you are noticing the motion in that manner, you are not executing properly. Slow down your pans, make your moves around a subject that draws your eye, etc. You will notice the same thing from a 35mm camera if not moved properly, there is actually a formula for how many feet you can cover in how many seconds...




ash =o)

[John L. Miller]

Thanks for all the comments, these are the best suggestions I have heard. Thanks! J

[Ash Greyson]

More tips.... turn OFF all image stabilization and stay away from medium shots with deep focus.



ash =o)

[Ron Stoecklein]

Yes there are links to this question in the forum but the answers aren't clear enough--or my brain simply can't see the answer clear enough so..

I am shooting a surf film in el Salvador-Xl2 and Gl2-The actual surfing is shot at 60i--shutter speed around 1/60 to 1/125 depending on the light---almost always using a circular polarizing filter--with a Custom Preset that was posted on this site for shooting ocean takes.

Question is--I typically leave the setting at 60i even when shooting Lifestyle scenes or Landscape\seascapes--would I get better results if I shot the Lifestyle scenes, etc. in 24p? If so when edited in FCP is there any problem with mixing the 2 speeds?

Thanks
Ron

[Ash Greyson]

You can mix both but I recommend shooting with the 2:3 pulldown and editing in a normal 60i timeline




ash =o)

[Michael Sweeney]

Okay, well I just got my XL2 and need some info and clarification on the 24p, 60i, and 30p. What are the differences and what is better? How do they relate to editing?
Thanks,
Mike