24p questions

[David Lach]

Yeah I knew about the way the pulldown works with DV Alan, I was just trying to figure out if when re-importing it would see it properly, as DV with a 2:3:3:2 pulldown, and not simply 29.97 NTSC DV video. But I've tested it myself in AE, Premiere, Xpress Pro and Vegas. They were all able to identify and remove the advanced pulldown. Only difference is that AE recognized the 24p advanced export from PPro as a EEMEE pulldown pattern, while the footage I exported back from tape was detected and recognized as MEEEE pulldown pattern. I don't know why the sequence changed between the DV file and the footage on tape, but it doesn't matter to me, all the NLEs were able to properly remove the pulldown.

So thanks for that suggestion Alan, worked for me.

I'd still be interested in knowing what causes the aspect ratio to freak out when letting the NLE add the pulldown on the fly. Could it be hardware related? If anybody does not have that problem, or for the people that do have the problem, could you list your hardware, most importantly video card(s)? That might help formulate an answer based on similarities.

[Chris Miller]

Sorry for asking such a stupid question...I'm completely lost here.

First, let me ask --is it possible to capture 24p from an XL2 using Adobe Premier 6.5?

When I use it, the footage seems interlaced (I believe that's the correct term for what I'm seeing) and also very noisy/grainy.


Here are some screenshots of what I do: (I know I'm doing things wrong)


Ok I open up Premier and select the following project settings:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ctsettings.jpg


I then click 'Capture' and select the following capture settings:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...resettings.jpg


And then when I want to edit it on After Effects I export 'movie' with the following settings:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...rtsettings.jpg



Will someone Please! help a n00b out?
thanks so much

[Chris Miller]

...Ps. --I shot it in "2:3" as opposed to "2:3:3:2" (not 100% clear on what that means)

[Alan James]

I don’t know if it is possible to edit 24p footage in Premiere 6.5 but you are going about it the correct way. You can correct that you are seeing interlacing. Mini dv stores all of its info on tape as 29.97FPS. So it has to add in 6 more frames to conform to the 29.97 frame rate of the tape. If there is a 24p setting you should be able to just import your footage and it will remove those frames, if not then just edit at 29.97 and put up with the interlacing.

One thing u might want to look into is the pulldown setting on the camera. Turn the camera to 24p mode then open up the menu. Go to “camera setup”. Under that go to “24p mode sel” and make sure your camera is set to 2:3:3:2 mode. When footage filmed in this mode is imported into a 24p sequence it will recognize it as real 24p rather then 29.97.

I will bet that the problem you are running into is just your editing program but I cant say for sure because I have never used Premiere 6.5. Good luck.

[Adam Bray]

That's a 29.97 timeline you're putting it in in Premiere. Check to see if 6.5 even supports 24P. I have version 7.0 (which is actually v 1.0) and it does not support 24P.

A 29.97 timeline of for 30P and 60i footage.

[Eb Samba]

Chris
Premier 6.5 does not support 24P.
You'll have to get Premier Pro 2.0

[Steve Maller]

I'm relatively new to the world of pro video, but I'm a pro still guy and I know my tech stuff quite well.

So here's my question: given the world's trajectory towards everything digital, the proliferation of LCD and plasma TVs, and the assumption that everything I shoot is going to be delivered either on DVD or the web, is there any reason to shoot interlaced source material?

I understand that (on the XL2, for example) 60i is going to give you slightly smoother motion, it drives me nuts to see the interlacing artifacts on a DVD. I *vastly* prefer sacrificing a small amount of motion fluidity for the cleanliness of a proper progressive shot.

And, I suppose the same thing holds true for HDV capture, but I've not yet taken that leap, so this question really applies to the SD world.

Thanks!

[Mike Teutsch]

Originally Posted by Steve Maller

I'm relatively new to the world of pro video, but I'm a pro still guy and I know my tech stuff quite well.

So here's my question: given the world's trajectory towards everything digital, the proliferation of LCD and plasma TVs, and the assumption that everything I shoot is going to be delivered either on DVD or the web, is there any reason to shoot interlaced source material?

I understand that (on the XL2, for example) 60i is going to give you slightly smoother motion, it drives me nuts to see the interlacing artifacts on a DVD. I *vastly* prefer sacrificing a small amount of motion fluidity for the cleanliness of a proper progressive shot.

And, I suppose the same thing holds true for HDV capture, but I've not yet taken that leap, so this question really applies to the SD world.

Thanks!

Hi Steve,

No you are not dense, well not that I really know! :)

The difference between motion blur with 60i and 24p is not slight, it is quite harsh. Most TVs are still interlaced for a while yet. But, all you really have to do is to deinterlace. I burn my DVDs in progressive, and my DVD player plays progressive and my TV plays them just fine and they look great!

Still don't want to use 60i, well then 30p would be better than 24p for handling motion.

JMHO

Have fun-----Mike

[Jarrod Whaley]

Originally Posted by Mike Teutsch

But, all you really have to do is to deinterlace

Only if you don't have access to a camera with progressive chips and absolutely must end up with a progressive finished product. Deinterlacing reduces resolution pretty considerably, and not all interlaced footage deinterlaces with usable results.

Deinterlacing is best thought of as a last resort, in my opinion. If you don't have a camera with progressive chips, I generally think it's best to try to shoot the kinds of things that look good in an interlaced format. This way, you make assets of what were once liabilities.

Using limitations to one's advantage is an extremely important skill for us poor people to have, and yet it is very rarely discussed.

[Ashok Mansur]

I would like to know, how they differ from each other. while viewing in the TV I did't noticed difference. can you people elaborate it deeply as in which situation these are better applied.
I prefer 24p in low light condition, is it correct or not?
Ashok Mansur

[Ashok Mansur]

It's 50i instead of 50p

[Jack Barker]

Don't know anything about "50p," so I'm thinking you mean 25p, since you also wrote "PAL".

24p is the standard for matching a film camera's rate of 24 frames per second, and gives video a somewhat filmic look. 25p is the PAL (UK, etc.) equivalent, though it would havep to drop a frame if you were going to do a transfer to film, since all film is run at 24 frames per second. Neither 24p, nor 25p are used especially for low light conditions, but for the look they have.

25p is used in PAL countries because it fits in nicely with the 50 cycles per second of the electrical grids in those countries – one frame per every other cycle. 24p doesn't really fit in nicely with anything, except the film frame rate, but we've learned to live with it.

In any event, It you are watching the two from a DVD played on your television, and you think they look the same, it's because they are. What ever region you live in, your DVD player will add the correct pulldown to display it. For example, when displayed on a standard NTSC TV (which only display 60i), the DVD player will add 2:3 pulldown to the signal. So yes, 24p and 25p will look pretty much the same played on a TV from a DVD in any given region.

[John L. Miller]

We have a full feature scheduled to shoot starting in Mid May. Two Canon XL2 cameras are going to be our workhorse. However, there is some divided opinions on what to shoot the film in. One says shoot in 30P to avoid the stuccado hanging when panning. Another says use 24P and Up the shutter speed to correct the problem. I own the cameras and the script. I would like to hear everyones opinion on what you would shoot. Or, how can we get 24P to DVD without the stuccado pans when movement is taking place? Rarely, do you see ANY stuccado or hangs in a televised or DVD movie. Thanks.

[Adam Bray]

You see TONS of blur in movies. You just don't notice it too much because they attempt to hide it by shooting from certain angles and tracking subjects during pans. It's part of the art.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say whoever told you to shoot 24P and up the shutter does not know what they are talking about. No point in shooting 24P if you're going to crank up the shutter. That defeats the whole purpose to me. You might as well just shoot 60i then. That's my opinion.

Just shoot 24P, 1/48 and pay attention to your angles. Make sure you have a subject to follow on pans.

[Richard Hunter]

If you don't like the effect of 24p then shoot 30p. It's your movie.