24p questions

Mathieu Ghekiere · April 17th, 2006, 05:37 PM

My opinion on the subject would be:

60i: for mostly 'real' things: soap operas, sport events, skate videos, news coverage, maybe documentaries

24p: for narrative film, shorts...

30p: a kind of compromise between this two, it's also progressive but it has more frames, as Keith already mentioned.

Of course, you can use 60i for a short and 24p for a skate video, this is only my opinion about it.

Giroud Francois · April 17th, 2006, 07:03 PM

it does not really matter since most conversion software reformat the video to specific parameters.
interlaced is a pain if you are using resized video (except half or quarter sized, since this allow to skip a full frame), so reducing video first to half size is often a must
24p probably brings no benefits and is often difficult to process, since most codec are based on either 25 or 30 images/sec.
25p or 30 is great but unavailable available on most DV camera.

Mike Dickson · April 19th, 2006, 10:18 AM

Having just upgraded from xl1 to xl2 these options were previously unavailable to me. I video in several arenas but most of it has to do with the outdoors. (hunting, wildlife, sporting events) Would someone please educate me.

Eric A Robinson · April 19th, 2006, 11:39 AM

Hi There

25P is available is you have a PAL XL2. I tend to shoot all my stuff in 25P as I just like the look. At the end of the day all these things that relate to the aesthetics of video or film are just subjective. For example I was looking at some HD footage the other day and I thought it looked just plain crap. What I mean by that it looked too sharp too clear just too perfect. It all comes down to taste. Getting back to the point I would rather keep the frame rate at 25 for web based stuff and lower the quality value. If you use h.264 you can end up with pretty small files that both look and importantlysound pretty good.

Shervin Mandgaryan · April 19th, 2006, 01:55 PM

24p = Excellent for internet videos and the like, movie quality look

30p = Excellent for internet also, but not as staccato motion as 24p mode, but still gives the same effect

60i = 60 frames, bigger file size when compressed vs 24p and 30p.

My two cents.

Derek Elkins · April 19th, 2006, 03:36 PM

As a matter of PERSONAL preference, 60i just makes me sick now that I have 30p and 24p. However, I live in the Louisiana area as well and see a number of hunting and wildlife shows on cable access that use 60i (this makes them look VERY local though).

Will you be shooting with a tripod or monopod, or are you going strictly handheld? If you're going handheld, stick with 30p. 24p can get very jumpy if you don't have smooth, slow movement, and I would think that following a duck in the air would require some high-speed panning.

You may want to consider shooting a combination of 60i and 30p, which would help differentiate the feel between hosting/interview segments and action segments.

Regardless, everything comes down to preference, so play around and see what works best for YOU.

Tony Davies-Patrick · April 20th, 2006, 02:22 AM

For your outdoors (hunting, wildlife, sporting events) shooting, especially if you intend to eventually sell the footage to TV networks or as DVD format, it is far better to stick with 60i.

Derek Elkins · April 20th, 2006, 11:36 AM

Why's that?

If he planned on converting to PAL for any given reason, I know 24p or 60i, but is there any reason 30p wouldn't work for TV or DVD?

David Jimerson · April 20th, 2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Elkins

Will you be shooting with a tripod or monopod, or are you going strictly handheld? If you're going handheld, stick with 30p. 24p can get very jumpy if you don't have smooth, slow movement, and I would think that following a duck in the air would require some high-speed panning.

This is generally solid advice, but I'd point out that following an object is a way to minimize strobe -- everyone will be paying attention to the duck, which will seem stationary on the screen (more or less), not the strobing background.

David Jimerson · April 20th, 2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derek Elkins

If he planned on converting to PAL for any given reason, I know 24p or 60i, but is there any reason 30p wouldn't work for TV or DVD?

Plenty of reality shows are shot in 30p.

Derek Elkins · April 20th, 2006, 12:18 PM

Exactly, that's why I didn't understand the advise. Or rather, I was worried I personally was missing something and going about things all wrong.

I've edited a few TV shows that were shot in 30p (mixed with 60i), editing back down to DVCPro and not seen a problem when aired on cable...

Ash Greyson · April 20th, 2006, 04:22 PM

30p looks great, it does not go to film, PAL, or to a 24P timeline very well... If you plan on mixing 24p and 30p, stick with a 29.97 timeline...

ash =o)

Gregory Dillard · April 28th, 2006, 05:29 AM

Don't know if this topic has been covered, but we are in dire need of a solution for the setup that we have. We have an XL2, and have shot in all of the formats on the camera. However, back at the lab, our FCP setup doesn't say that the footage was captured at 24P. It still says 29.97. I was on the phone with Rudy (AJA Tech Support) as we have an AJA i/O box, XSERVE RAID, SONY DSR 1500A with SDI. Although we changed the settings in the easy setup when we did a simple capture we checked the properties of the clip and it still says that the vid rate is 29.97. Any suggestions, and if we are all over the place, then we apologize for rambling. Thanks for any and all assistance on this issue.

Phil Bowen · April 28th, 2006, 09:49 AM

Which mode of 24p did you shoot in? 2:3 pulldown or 2:3:3:2?

Ash Greyson · April 28th, 2006, 02:14 PM

First off, if you shot 30P and will use much of it, you should edit in a 29.97 timline, 30p to 24p looks pretty gross. Sounds like your pre-sets were off... easy fix, use Cinema Tools to process the captured footage...

ash =o)

April 17th, 2006, 05:37 PM	#451
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	My opinion on the subject would be: 60i: for mostly 'real' things: soap operas, sport events, skate videos, news coverage, maybe documentaries 24p: for narrative film, shorts... 30p: a kind of compromise between this two, it's also progressive but it has more frames, as Keith already mentioned. Of course, you can use 60i for a short and 24p for a skate video, this is only my opinion about it. __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

April 19th, 2006, 10:18 AM	#453
Mike Dickson New Boot Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Homer, LA Posts: 5	60i vs 30p vs 24p Having just upgraded from xl1 to xl2 these options were previously unavailable to me. I video in several arenas but most of it has to do with the outdoors. (hunting, wildlife, sporting events) Would someone please educate me.

April 19th, 2006, 11:39 AM	#454
Eric A Robinson Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland Posts: 82	25p Hi There 25P is available is you have a PAL XL2. I tend to shoot all my stuff in 25P as I just like the look. At the end of the day all these things that relate to the aesthetics of video or film are just subjective. For example I was looking at some HD footage the other day and I thought it looked just plain crap. What I mean by that it looked too sharp too clear just too perfect. It all comes down to taste. Getting back to the point I would rather keep the frame rate at 25 for web based stuff and lower the quality value. If you use h.264 you can end up with pretty small files that both look and importantlysound pretty good.

April 20th, 2006, 02:22 AM	#457
Tony Davies-Patrick Trustee Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Worldwide Posts: 1,589	For your outdoors (hunting, wildlife, sporting events) shooting, especially if you intend to eventually sell the footage to TV networks or as DVD format, it is far better to stick with 60i. __________________ www.WILDCARP.com www.NIKON.me.uk

April 28th, 2006, 05:29 AM	#463
Gregory Dillard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 55	XL2, 24P & 30P and Final Cut Pro 5.0.4 Don't know if this topic has been covered, but we are in dire need of a solution for the setup that we have. We have an XL2, and have shot in all of the formats on the camera. However, back at the lab, our FCP setup doesn't say that the footage was captured at 24P. It still says 29.97. I was on the phone with Rudy (AJA Tech Support) as we have an AJA i/O box, XSERVE RAID, SONY DSR 1500A with SDI. Although we changed the settings in the easy setup when we did a simple capture we checked the properties of the clip and it still says that the vid rate is 29.97. Any suggestions, and if we are all over the place, then we apologize for rambling. Thanks for any and all assistance on this issue.

April 17th, 2006, 07:03 PM	#452
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	it does not really matter since most conversion software reformat the video to specific parameters. interlaced is a pain if you are using resized video (except half or quarter sized, since this allow to skip a full frame), so reducing video first to half size is often a must 24p probably brings no benefits and is often difficult to process, since most codec are based on either 25 or 30 images/sec. 25p or 30 is great but unavailable available on most DV camera.

April 19th, 2006, 01:55 PM	#455
Shervin Mandgaryan Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto Ontario Posts: 85	24p = Excellent for internet videos and the like, movie quality look 30p = Excellent for internet also, but not as staccato motion as 24p mode, but still gives the same effect 60i = 60 frames, bigger file size when compressed vs 24p and 30p. My two cents.

April 19th, 2006, 03:36 PM	#456
Derek Elkins New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 16	As a matter of PERSONAL preference, 60i just makes me sick now that I have 30p and 24p. However, I live in the Louisiana area as well and see a number of hunting and wildlife shows on cable access that use 60i (this makes them look VERY local though). Will you be shooting with a tripod or monopod, or are you going strictly handheld? If you're going handheld, stick with 30p. 24p can get very jumpy if you don't have smooth, slow movement, and I would think that following a duck in the air would require some high-speed panning. You may want to consider shooting a combination of 60i and 30p, which would help differentiate the feel between hosting/interview segments and action segments. Regardless, everything comes down to preference, so play around and see what works best for YOU.

April 20th, 2006, 11:36 AM	#458
Derek Elkins New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 16	Why's that? If he planned on converting to PAL for any given reason, I know 24p or 60i, but is there any reason 30p wouldn't work for TV or DVD?

April 20th, 2006, 12:18 PM	#461
Derek Elkins New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 16	Exactly, that's why I didn't understand the advise. Or rather, I was worried I personally was missing something and going about things all wrong. I've edited a few TV shows that were shot in 30p (mixed with 60i), editing back down to DVCPro and not seen a problem when aired on cable...

April 20th, 2006, 04:22 PM	#462
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	30p looks great, it does not go to film, PAL, or to a 24P timeline very well... If you plan on mixing 24p and 30p, stick with a 29.97 timeline... ash =o)

April 28th, 2006, 09:49 AM	#464
Phil Bowen New Boot Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada Posts: 13	Which mode of 24p did you shoot in? 2:3 pulldown or 2:3:3:2?

April 28th, 2006, 02:14 PM	#465
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	First off, if you shot 30P and will use much of it, you should edit in a 29.97 timline, 30p to 24p looks pretty gross. Sounds like your pre-sets were off... easy fix, use Cinema Tools to process the captured footage... ash =o)