24p questions

Joshua Provost · April 6th, 2006, 02:20 PM

Eric,

The TV will be refreshing every 1/60th, so you could probably shoot with the shutter at 1/60 or a multiple thereof. Even so, the refresh may vary just a fraction, which could give you a slow-rolling flicker. Some cameras have a "SynchroScan" feature that allows you precisely tweak the shutter around 1/60 to match what you are shooting.

If it doesn't work out, is there another way to get the shots? Have the TV off and overlay an image in post? If it's a closeup of just the TV image, could you fake the TV look in post (add fake scanlines, and otherwise mess with the image in some way)?

Josh

Matthew Nayman · April 6th, 2006, 02:25 PM

You could shoot an LCD or Plasma HD tv. they don't flicker.

Eniola Akintoye · April 6th, 2006, 05:21 PM

Clear Scan

The Clear Scan feature allows you to record a computer CRT screen or similar equipment without displaying a black band or flicker on the screen. The XL2 can adjust shutter speeds from 60 Hz to 202.5 Hz, allowing you to perfectly match the CRT's scan rate.

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...4#subsection10

Hope that helps

Gregory Dillard · April 14th, 2006, 07:54 PM

I believe this topic has been covered before, but i am bit muffed at locating the info so i will explain what we are doing. We are shooting 24P & 30P and we want to know if we have to bring it into Cinema Tools, then back to FCP, or do we just edit it in FCP? Also what are the correct settings that we should be using in FCP? Thank you and this is my first post so please don't beat me up too bad. LOL!

Javier Urena · April 14th, 2006, 08:35 PM

30p is treated just like regular video, though you may want to let FCP know the footage is progressive in the capture and sequence settings.

Did you shoot 24p or 24p advanced? If you shot 24p, then you treat it the same way as 30p. You will set your sequence settings to 29.97 fps.(same as any other video)

24p advanced is different. You will have to tell FCP to remove pulldown and make sure the sequence is set to 23.98 fps.

If you want to mix this footage with the 30p, you have to add pulldown and edit at 29.97 fps. I don't know how to do this, so I hope you shot regular 24p.

Hope that helps.

Gregory Dillard · April 14th, 2006, 09:52 PM

I shot it in 24P.

Gregory Dillard · April 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM

24P advanced. sorry.

Adam Bray · April 14th, 2006, 11:13 PM

Not to hijack the thead, but what is "24P advanced"?

Greg Boston · April 15th, 2006, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Bray

Not to hijack the thead, but what is "24P advanced"?

24p advanced is a recording of 2:3:3:2 which will allow for 24 complete stand-alone frames to be recovered from the 60i stream out of the camera. You edit this on a 24p timeline in the editor much as you would film.

Regular 24p is recorded as 3:2 and during the recovery from the 60i stream, 1 frame has to be recreated out of 2 fields and is edited on a regular 60i timeline.

The best graphical and textual discussion of this concept I have found is on Adam Wilt's website. Go check it out. http://www.adamwilt.com/24p/index.html#24pRecording

-gb-

David Jimerson · April 15th, 2006, 08:20 AM

If you have an NLE which will remove pulldown from standard 24p, you can edit that in native 24p as well. You're not stuck in 60i.

Ash Greyson · April 15th, 2006, 01:27 PM

24P can convert to 29.97 and look just fine... 30P can convert to 29.97 and look fine. 30P to 24P will look terrible. 30P to film out will look terrible. 30P to PAL will look terrible. With no interlaced fields to blend, to get 30p to 24p, you just lose 6 frames which gets very jumpy.

If you intend to mix 24P and 30P you need to deliver in 29.97 NTSC, I would recommend shooting the 24P in 2:3 mode, not 2:3:3:2. For now I think it will look best if you do everything in a 29.97 timeline.

ash =o)

Brett OBourke · April 17th, 2006, 04:08 PM

I'm new to the board, so be gentle.

I just got an XL2 for shooting short documentaries for a webmagazine. Frankly, I have only the slightest notion of how to use the thing, but I will learn.

Meanwhile, if anyone could give me a thumbnail summary (or perhaps a link to an article) of the difference between the three different video formats, which is best for posting on the net and why, I'd be extremely grateful.

thanks in advance.

BO'B

Greg Boston · April 17th, 2006, 04:11 PM

It's best to go with lower frame rates for web based video. This helps cut down on overall file size while maintaining visual quality. Folks will generally accept a lower frame rate rather than a heavily compressed picture.

Congratulations on your new XL-2! This camera does good stuff out of the box, and great stuff after you tweak the picture adjustments. You have lots to read and there's no better place than the XL-2 forum here on DV-INFO.

Good luck and have fun,

-gb-

Brett OBourke · April 17th, 2006, 04:37 PM

thanks, Greg.

What are the advantages/disadvantages to 30p v. 24p?

K. Forman · April 17th, 2006, 05:09 PM

An extra 6 frames, to start. Decent web video is 12 to 15 frames a second. The more frames you start with, the more you need to trim, which leaves the motion a little jittery. Each frame you shave, helps drop the file size, much like resizing does.

April 6th, 2006, 02:20 PM	#436
Joshua Provost Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 493	Eric, The TV will be refreshing every 1/60th, so you could probably shoot with the shutter at 1/60 or a multiple thereof. Even so, the refresh may vary just a fraction, which could give you a slow-rolling flicker. Some cameras have a "SynchroScan" feature that allows you precisely tweak the shutter around 1/60 to match what you are shooting. If it doesn't work out, is there another way to get the shots? Have the TV off and overlay an image in post? If it's a closeup of just the TV image, could you fake the TV look in post (add fake scanlines, and otherwise mess with the image in some way)? Josh __________________ Owner/Operator, 727 Records Co-Founder, Matter of Chance Productions Blogger, Try Avoidance

April 14th, 2006, 07:54 PM	#439
Gregory Dillard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 55	Shooting 24P on XL2 and editing with FCP 5 I believe this topic has been covered before, but i am bit muffed at locating the info so i will explain what we are doing. We are shooting 24P & 30P and we want to know if we have to bring it into Cinema Tools, then back to FCP, or do we just edit it in FCP? Also what are the correct settings that we should be using in FCP? Thank you and this is my first post so please don't beat me up too bad. LOL!

April 14th, 2006, 09:52 PM	#441
Gregory Dillard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 55	Shooting 24P on XL2 and editing with FCP 5 I shot it in 24P.

April 14th, 2006, 09:53 PM	#442
Gregory Dillard Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 55	Shooting 24P on XL2 and editing with FCP 5 24P advanced. sorry.

April 15th, 2006, 08:20 AM	#445
David Jimerson Jubal 28 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wilmington, NC Posts: 872	If you have an NLE which will remove pulldown from standard 24p, you can edit that in native 24p as well. You're not stuck in 60i. __________________ www.wrightsvillebeachstudios.com

April 6th, 2006, 02:25 PM	#437
Matthew Nayman Major Player Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Toronto Posts: 917	You could shoot an LCD or Plasma HD tv. they don't flicker.

April 6th, 2006, 05:21 PM	#438
Eniola Akintoye Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Duluth GA Posts: 238	Clear Scan The Clear Scan feature allows you to record a computer CRT screen or similar equipment without displaying a black band or flicker on the screen. The XL2 can adjust shutter speeds from 60 Hz to 202.5 Hz, allowing you to perfectly match the CRT's scan rate. http://consumer.usa.canon.com/ir/con...4#subsection10 Hope that helps

April 14th, 2006, 08:35 PM	#440
Javier Urena Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 67	30p is treated just like regular video, though you may want to let FCP know the footage is progressive in the capture and sequence settings. Did you shoot 24p or 24p advanced? If you shot 24p, then you treat it the same way as 30p. You will set your sequence settings to 29.97 fps.(same as any other video) 24p advanced is different. You will have to tell FCP to remove pulldown and make sure the sequence is set to 23.98 fps. If you want to mix this footage with the 30p, you have to add pulldown and edit at 29.97 fps. I don't know how to do this, so I hope you shot regular 24p. Hope that helps.

April 14th, 2006, 11:13 PM	#443
Adam Bray Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 394	Not to hijack the thead, but what is "24P advanced"?

April 15th, 2006, 01:27 PM	#446
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	24P can convert to 29.97 and look just fine... 30P can convert to 29.97 and look fine. 30P to 24P will look terrible. 30P to film out will look terrible. 30P to PAL will look terrible. With no interlaced fields to blend, to get 30p to 24p, you just lose 6 frames which gets very jumpy. If you intend to mix 24P and 30P you need to deliver in 29.97 NTSC, I would recommend shooting the 24P in 2:3 mode, not 2:3:3:2. For now I think it will look best if you do everything in a 29.97 timeline. ash =o)

April 17th, 2006, 04:08 PM	#447
Brett OBourke Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	60i, 30p, 24p: which is best for internet? I'm new to the board, so be gentle. I just got an XL2 for shooting short documentaries for a webmagazine. Frankly, I have only the slightest notion of how to use the thing, but I will learn. Meanwhile, if anyone could give me a thumbnail summary (or perhaps a link to an article) of the difference between the three different video formats, which is best for posting on the net and why, I'd be extremely grateful. thanks in advance. BO'B

April 17th, 2006, 04:11 PM	#448
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	It's best to go with lower frame rates for web based video. This helps cut down on overall file size while maintaining visual quality. Folks will generally accept a lower frame rate rather than a heavily compressed picture. Congratulations on your new XL-2! This camera does good stuff out of the box, and great stuff after you tweak the picture adjustments. You have lots to read and there's no better place than the XL-2 forum here on DV-INFO. Good luck and have fun, -gb-

April 17th, 2006, 04:37 PM	#449
Brett OBourke Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 72	thanks, Greg. What are the advantages/disadvantages to 30p v. 24p?

April 17th, 2006, 05:09 PM	#450
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	An extra 6 frames, to start. Decent web video is 12 to 15 frames a second. The more frames you start with, the more you need to trim, which leaves the motion a little jittery. Each frame you shave, helps drop the file size, much like resizing does. __________________ www.SmokeWagonLeather.us