24p questions

Patrick King · August 11th, 2005, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Hunter

Regarding how to select clearscan, Im not sure, but I think it is greyed out in automatic exposure modes. Have you tried with the exposure set to Manual?

Kevin,

As Richard mentioned, the feature is not available except in the Manual (M) or Shutter Priority (Tv) modes. This is shown on page 73 of the XL2 User Manual as the only two mode sysmbols shown with dark symbols. The chart on page 57 also shows that Clear Scan is only available in M or Tv modes and not available in Tv if EXP LOCK is selected.

Kevin Wild · August 11th, 2005, 07:01 PM

Strange, because I was in full manual mode. I'll have to make sure it works.

What about using 24p? I thought you shouldn't need clear scan at all if working progressive. Is this not true?

Thx, guys.

Kevin

Patrick King · August 11th, 2005, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

Strange, because I was in full manual mode. I'll have to make sure it works.

What about using 24p? I thought you shouldn't need clear scan at all if working progressive. Is this not true?

Thx, guys.

Kevin

Kevin, you have to select shutter speed to CS and then go into the menu to adjust the frequency.

Richard Hunter · August 11th, 2005, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Wild

What about using 24p? I thought you shouldn't need clear scan at all if working progressive. Is this not true?

Hi Kevin. No, it's not true. Even with progressive scan in the camera, what you actually capture in each frame depends on what the monitor is displaying during the time your shutter is open (sorry for stating the obvious!). If you don't use clearscan, the monitor will either display a partial frame (when your shutter is open for too short a time) or a full frame with a bright area that has been scanned twice (when your shutter is open for too long).

Richard

Samuel Orpilla · August 16th, 2005, 11:43 PM

I've recently purchased the XL2, and it seems every shot i capture at 24p has motion blurriness. If there's any significant movement, like swinging your head to fast, or sometimes just walking across the screen, there's quite a bit of distortion.

I've never shot in 24p before, so i'm not sure if this is normal. But if not, should i adjust my settings? Most of the shots have been with autofocus, but it seems even in manual I get this distortion. of course, here's less at 30p and none at 60i.

Let me know if you need any info from me.

Ash Greyson · August 16th, 2005, 11:49 PM

What shutter are you at? try 1/48 if you are at 1/24 What you are seeing is NORMAL. Despite what you read on this and other forums 24P is an EFFECT, not a way to make your images look better. Make sure it works with the project you are doing. 24P is best for slow cinematic moves, shallow DOF shots and for the EFFECT it creates. It is NOT for everything...

ash =o)

Samuel Orpilla · August 17th, 2005, 10:14 AM

Thanks for your help, Ash. I just wanted to make sure it was normal, and I will try changing the shutter speed.

Greg Boston · August 17th, 2005, 11:17 AM

Also, be aware that the autofocus system does not function in 24p mode because of the slower scan rate of the ccd's which can't update fast enough to lock in on the subject. That's the dis-advantage of using a through the lens autofocus system.

You have to adjust your camera technique for 24p. As you noted, fast motion has a lot of blur. This is normal and you can't pan the camera too fast, or have rapid motion in the frame. Standard shutter speed for 24p is 1/48 which corresponds to a 180 degree shutter on a film camera.

There are lots of things to consider when you shoot at 24p. Unfortunately, it's not a turn on and shoot kind of image aquisition.

regards,

-gb-

Javier Urena · August 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM

This is a matter of shutter speed, not frame rate. Any still photographer will tell you that it's difficult to get a good static shot at 1/48 second, let alone one involving movement.

For example, if a still photographer shoots a car race, he'll use a shutter speed of 1/500 or faster, or pan like the best panner in the world.

So Samuel, I suggest you play around with different shutter speeds and panning techniques before ditching 24P for your project.

Robert Luke · August 17th, 2005, 10:08 PM

so are we talking like jsut a regular blur when something moves (like shutter speed) or are we talking about crazy pixelation like what you see on HDTVs when the camera moves a lot (mostly visible in liveish shows like Jay Leno and sports shows)

Samuel Orpilla · August 18th, 2005, 05:11 PM

We're talking good old motion blur, due to the shutter speed

Richard Hunter · August 18th, 2005, 06:26 PM

The motion blur is easy to get rid of - just increase the shutter speed. However, then you are left with the judder and strobing inherent in the slow 24p frame rate, and that takes a lot more care to work with.

Richard

Arlie Nava · August 20th, 2005, 02:17 PM

set both your capture and sequence settings to 23.98 advance pulldown removal. I use sony trv 17. no problem.

Lars Barlow · August 27th, 2005, 10:50 PM

Um, I would recommend that you do not try to "convert" any of your footage into HD. The only thing that can possibly do that is some super algabraic software that has yet to be invented. You really can't make a higher resolution picture with a lower resolution and expect any raise in quality.

However, a TV expert told me that most of the new HDTVs are rather sophisticated in that they have a chip that detects the resolution of the video stream and compensates for it. I have seen this with a wedding video I did and some nature stuff. Basically they way it works is the TV projects a lower resolution picture that matches the source of video. You get a good quality picture without pixels showing.

They way he explained it to me this is in most new (probably last year and a half) HDTVs. Just nobody knows about it. If the chip is not working Cable television will look terrible.

Your final decision for your progressive or interlaced footage should not rest on the TV because it will most likely project both the way the camera shoots it. So decide on what you want to shoot on based on how YOU want it to look.

Mathieu Ghekiere · August 28th, 2005, 05:49 AM

Bill, choosing 24p or 60i is an artistic choice. If you have a camera that has true progressive scan (which the XL2 has) you just have to choose if you want a 'filmlook' or a 'reality' look. But it hasn't got anything to do with resolution.

August 16th, 2005, 11:43 PM	#290
Samuel Orpilla Tourist Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3	24p motion blur? I've recently purchased the XL2, and it seems every shot i capture at 24p has motion blurriness. If there's any significant movement, like swinging your head to fast, or sometimes just walking across the screen, there's quite a bit of distortion. I've never shot in 24p before, so i'm not sure if this is normal. But if not, should i adjust my settings? Most of the shots have been with autofocus, but it seems even in manual I get this distortion. of course, here's less at 30p and none at 60i. Let me know if you need any info from me.

August 11th, 2005, 07:01 PM	#287
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Strange, because I was in full manual mode. I'll have to make sure it works. What about using 24p? I thought you shouldn't need clear scan at all if working progressive. Is this not true? Thx, guys. Kevin

August 16th, 2005, 11:49 PM	#291
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	What shutter are you at? try 1/48 if you are at 1/24 What you are seeing is NORMAL. Despite what you read on this and other forums 24P is an EFFECT, not a way to make your images look better. Make sure it works with the project you are doing. 24P is best for slow cinematic moves, shallow DOF shots and for the EFFECT it creates. It is NOT for everything... ash =o)

August 17th, 2005, 10:14 AM	#292
Samuel Orpilla Tourist Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3	Thanks for your help, Ash. I just wanted to make sure it was normal, and I will try changing the shutter speed.

August 17th, 2005, 11:17 AM	#293
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Also, be aware that the autofocus system does not function in 24p mode because of the slower scan rate of the ccd's which can't update fast enough to lock in on the subject. That's the dis-advantage of using a through the lens autofocus system. You have to adjust your camera technique for 24p. As you noted, fast motion has a lot of blur. This is normal and you can't pan the camera too fast, or have rapid motion in the frame. Standard shutter speed for 24p is 1/48 which corresponds to a 180 degree shutter on a film camera. There are lots of things to consider when you shoot at 24p. Unfortunately, it's not a turn on and shoot kind of image aquisition. regards, -gb-

August 17th, 2005, 05:06 PM	#294
Javier Urena Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 67	This is a matter of shutter speed, not frame rate. Any still photographer will tell you that it's difficult to get a good static shot at 1/48 second, let alone one involving movement. For example, if a still photographer shoots a car race, he'll use a shutter speed of 1/500 or faster, or pan like the best panner in the world. So Samuel, I suggest you play around with different shutter speeds and panning techniques before ditching 24P for your project.

August 17th, 2005, 10:08 PM	#295
Robert Luke Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 45	so are we talking like jsut a regular blur when something moves (like shutter speed) or are we talking about crazy pixelation like what you see on HDTVs when the camera moves a lot (mostly visible in liveish shows like Jay Leno and sports shows)

August 18th, 2005, 05:11 PM	#296
Samuel Orpilla Tourist Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 3	We're talking good old motion blur, due to the shutter speed

August 18th, 2005, 06:26 PM	#297
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	The motion blur is easy to get rid of - just increase the shutter speed. However, then you are left with the judder and strobing inherent in the slow 24p frame rate, and that takes a lot more care to work with. Richard

August 20th, 2005, 02:17 PM	#298
Arlie Nava Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Philippines Posts: 27	set both your capture and sequence settings to 23.98 advance pulldown removal. I use sony trv 17. no problem.

August 27th, 2005, 10:50 PM	#299
Lars Barlow New Boot Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Orem, UT Posts: 22	Um, I would recommend that you do not try to "convert" any of your footage into HD. The only thing that can possibly do that is some super algabraic software that has yet to be invented. You really can't make a higher resolution picture with a lower resolution and expect any raise in quality. However, a TV expert told me that most of the new HDTVs are rather sophisticated in that they have a chip that detects the resolution of the video stream and compensates for it. I have seen this with a wedding video I did and some nature stuff. Basically they way it works is the TV projects a lower resolution picture that matches the source of video. You get a good quality picture without pixels showing. They way he explained it to me this is in most new (probably last year and a half) HDTVs. Just nobody knows about it. If the chip is not working Cable television will look terrible. Your final decision for your progressive or interlaced footage should not rest on the TV because it will most likely project both the way the camera shoots it. So decide on what you want to shoot on based on how YOU want it to look.

August 28th, 2005, 05:49 AM	#300
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Bill, choosing 24p or 60i is an artistic choice. If you have a camera that has true progressive scan (which the XL2 has) you just have to choose if you want a 'filmlook' or a 'reality' look. But it hasn't got anything to do with resolution.