24p questions

Ash Greyson · July 16th, 2005, 02:23 PM

If DVD/VHS is the final medium, you are fine with anything. In my exeperience I find 30P works great for NTSC DVDs. It will give you extremely clear images with less stuttering than 24P. If there is going to be a lot of motion, 30P can create a nice effect when combined with a high shutter. Just test it out, you cant really go wrong. The only issues with 30P can be transferring to PAL or bumping to film.

ash =o)

Doug Thron · July 16th, 2005, 04:54 PM

what are the pro and cons of shooting or editing if I shot the hotrod video on 60i? does it cause problems if i mix it up some of it shot 30p and some 60i? thanks for any help.

Wes Coughlin · July 16th, 2005, 09:49 PM

It all depends on how you want your videos to look. If you like the look you see on the TV shows then 60i would be the best. 30p is heading towards more a film look but has advantages by not interlacing its frames, so i can help make motion look sharper. Im not a big fan on high shutter speeds, but thats just me; most videos have a 1/60 shutter speed for 30fps and 1/48 shutter for 24fps; this is because it allows more motion blurr for slower the film rate so their is less stobeness to the video. 24p will give you a nice cine/film look.
I would not recommend mixing 60i with 30p, because when you export you want 30p to be in "no fields" (progressive) and 60i to be lower field first.
Video is magical, becuase you can choose what ever you want. Mabye you want the hot rode video to look like it was shot on film, or mabye you want it to look like somthing everyone can picture seeing on tv.

Ash Greyson · July 17th, 2005, 09:00 PM

You can mix it all you want... it wont really matter. I do it all the time, like I said, it is NOT best for film out or PAL transfer.

ash =o)

Lucinda Luvaas · July 18th, 2005, 12:23 AM

Wes,

Are you saying that when you work in 30p you shouldn't use "lower field first?"

Lucinda

Patrick King · July 18th, 2005, 05:15 AM

Lucinda,

60i means 60 fields of imagery per second displayed as two separate horizontally striped fields and interlaced to create a full frame. You can choose Lower Field First or Upper Field First when working with interlaced video (its obvious when you've selected the wrong one).

30p means 30 frames of imagery per second displayed in full frames, one progressively after the other. You can't select Lower or Upper Field First working with progressive imagery.

Wes Coughlin · July 19th, 2005, 05:02 PM

I would not recommend mixing 60i with 30p, because when you export you want 30p to be in "no fields" (progressive) and 60i to be lower field first.
Video is magical, becuase you can choose what ever you want. Mabye you want the hot rode video to look like it was shot on film, or mabye you want it to look like somthing everyone can picture seeing on tv.[/QUOTE]

If it was confusing; i ment to say you usaully export the lower field first in 60i; also its ok to mix and match 60i and 30p as long as you deinterlace the 60i and then combind it with 30p again. These are just my helpful tips; anyone can do anything they like, as long as they like their results.

Ash Greyson · July 19th, 2005, 05:08 PM

Correct, you may have to fiddle with the settings when mixing framerates... same is true when you use a high shutter...

ash =o)

Forbes Hansen · August 2nd, 2005, 11:16 PM

Im not quite sure but i have believed that you want to shoot in 60i and have something like Final Cut HD to convert it to HD. Otherwise it wont work

Cory Bauer · August 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM

Hey All,

This has probably been asked many times, but I searched and couldn't find an answer. I'm wondering if it's necessary to playback 24p 16:9 footage shot on the Canon XL2 in the camera itself during capture (Final Cut Pro 5), or if it can be played back and captured from any DV camera or deck, namely a Sony DSR-250. I'm looking to rent the Canon XL2 to shoot some 16:9 24p footage, and am wondering if I need to rent the camera long enough to do my capturing also, or if I'll be able to use our Sony DV camera for that purpose. Thanks!

Jay Gladwell · August 3rd, 2005, 01:39 PM

It has to be captured from the camera.

Jay

Ash Greyson · August 3rd, 2005, 02:57 PM

Depends... 24P will work from anything, 24PA can be more picky...

ash =o)

Greg Boston · August 3rd, 2005, 04:33 PM

What comes off the tape during playback/capture is always the same, 720x480 60i. It will be necessary for your NLE to understand that there is a pulldown to apply and that the pixel aspect ratio needs to be changed to represent a 16:9 form factor.

Also, even though you should be able to play back the Canon tape in any deck, I've already had an issue with playback on my Panasonic 953 with a tape shot on the XL-2. The reverse scenario, however, is ok. 953 material played in the XL-2 w/o problem. I didn't try both XL-2 cameras as a source so it may be a problem with only one of the cameras.

Hope this helps,

-gb-

Kevin Wild · August 11th, 2005, 05:11 PM

I'm shooting an image from a computer screen soon. I thought I had read somewhere that when you're shooting progressive scan images, you don't need to worry about scan lines or using clear scan. Is this true? I did a quick test tonight and on my LCD monitor I didn't see scan lines in either 24p or 60i, I guess it's a progressive format. But, when I shot my wife's old iMac CRT monitor, it showed scan lines on both 24p and 60i.

I also didn't have the option to choose the clear scan mode in the menu. Anyone with experience with all this?

Thx!

Kevin

Richard Hunter · August 11th, 2005, 06:31 PM

Hi Kevin. It's the LCD vs. CRT that makes the difference. The image on an LCD panel does not fade away the same as on a CRT, so you can capture the whole screen within one frame. When you shoot a CRT, you will get a black band when the shutter speed is too fast, or a bright band when it is too slow. Clearscan lets you try to synchronise the shutter to the CRT refresh so you get the whole picture without dark or bright bands.

Regarding how to select clearscan, Im not sure, but I think it is greyed out in automatic exposure modes. Have you tried with the exposure set to Manual?

Richard

July 16th, 2005, 09:49 PM	#273
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	It all depends on how you want your videos to look. If you like the look you see on the TV shows then 60i would be the best. 30p is heading towards more a film look but has advantages by not interlacing its frames, so i can help make motion look sharper. Im not a big fan on high shutter speeds, but thats just me; most videos have a 1/60 shutter speed for 30fps and 1/48 shutter for 24fps; this is because it allows more motion blurr for slower the film rate so their is less stobeness to the video. 24p will give you a nice cine/film look. I would not recommend mixing 60i with 30p, because when you export you want 30p to be in "no fields" (progressive) and 60i to be lower field first. Video is magical, becuase you can choose what ever you want. Mabye you want the hot rode video to look like it was shot on film, or mabye you want it to look like somthing everyone can picture seeing on tv. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

July 18th, 2005, 05:15 AM	#276
Patrick King Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Enterprise, AL Posts: 857	Lucinda, 60i means 60 fields of imagery per second displayed as two separate horizontally striped fields and interlaced to create a full frame. You can choose Lower Field First or Upper Field First when working with interlaced video (its obvious when you've selected the wrong one). 30p means 30 frames of imagery per second displayed in full frames, one progressively after the other. You can't select Lower or Upper Field First working with progressive imagery. __________________ Fear No Weevil!

July 19th, 2005, 05:02 PM	#277
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	I would not recommend mixing 60i with 30p, because when you export you want 30p to be in "no fields" (progressive) and 60i to be lower field first. Video is magical, becuase you can choose what ever you want. Mabye you want the hot rode video to look like it was shot on film, or mabye you want it to look like somthing everyone can picture seeing on tv.[/QUOTE] If it was confusing; i ment to say you usaully export the lower field first in 60i; also its ok to mix and match 60i and 30p as long as you deinterlace the 60i and then combind it with 30p again. These are just my helpful tips; anyone can do anything they like, as long as they like their results. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

August 3rd, 2005, 01:32 PM	#280
Cory Bauer Tourist Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 2	Can I playback 24p XL2 Footage anywhere? Hey All, This has probably been asked many times, but I searched and couldn't find an answer. I'm wondering if it's necessary to playback 24p 16:9 footage shot on the Canon XL2 in the camera itself during capture (Final Cut Pro 5), or if it can be played back and captured from any DV camera or deck, namely a Sony DSR-250. I'm looking to rent the Canon XL2 to shoot some 16:9 24p footage, and am wondering if I need to rent the camera long enough to do my capturing also, or if I'll be able to use our Sony DV camera for that purpose. Thanks!

August 11th, 2005, 05:11 PM	#284
Kevin Wild Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 540	Scan Lines on CRT Monitor w XL2 at 24p? I'm shooting an image from a computer screen soon. I thought I had read somewhere that when you're shooting progressive scan images, you don't need to worry about scan lines or using clear scan. Is this true? I did a quick test tonight and on my LCD monitor I didn't see scan lines in either 24p or 60i, I guess it's a progressive format. But, when I shot my wife's old iMac CRT monitor, it showed scan lines on both 24p and 60i. I also didn't have the option to choose the clear scan mode in the menu. Anyone with experience with all this? Thx! Kevin

July 16th, 2005, 02:23 PM	#271
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	If DVD/VHS is the final medium, you are fine with anything. In my exeperience I find 30P works great for NTSC DVDs. It will give you extremely clear images with less stuttering than 24P. If there is going to be a lot of motion, 30P can create a nice effect when combined with a high shutter. Just test it out, you cant really go wrong. The only issues with 30P can be transferring to PAL or bumping to film. ash =o)

July 16th, 2005, 04:54 PM	#272
Doug Thron New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 8	what are the pro and cons of shooting or editing if I shot the hotrod video on 60i? does it cause problems if i mix it up some of it shot 30p and some 60i? thanks for any help.

July 17th, 2005, 09:00 PM	#274
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	You can mix it all you want... it wont really matter. I do it all the time, like I said, it is NOT best for film out or PAL transfer. ash =o)

July 18th, 2005, 12:23 AM	#275
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Wes, Are you saying that when you work in 30p you shouldn't use "lower field first?" Lucinda

July 19th, 2005, 05:08 PM	#278
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Correct, you may have to fiddle with the settings when mixing framerates... same is true when you use a high shutter... ash =o)

August 2nd, 2005, 11:16 PM	#279
Forbes Hansen Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 28	Im not quite sure but i have believed that you want to shoot in 60i and have something like Final Cut HD to convert it to HD. Otherwise it wont work

August 3rd, 2005, 01:39 PM	#281
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	It has to be captured from the camera. Jay

August 3rd, 2005, 02:57 PM	#282
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Depends... 24P will work from anything, 24PA can be more picky... ash =o)

August 3rd, 2005, 04:33 PM	#283
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	What comes off the tape during playback/capture is always the same, 720x480 60i. It will be necessary for your NLE to understand that there is a pulldown to apply and that the pixel aspect ratio needs to be changed to represent a 16:9 form factor. Also, even though you should be able to play back the Canon tape in any deck, I've already had an issue with playback on my Panasonic 953 with a tape shot on the XL-2. The reverse scenario, however, is ok. 953 material played in the XL-2 w/o problem. I didn't try both XL-2 cameras as a source so it may be a problem with only one of the cameras. Hope this helps, -gb-

August 11th, 2005, 06:31 PM	#285
Richard Hunter Trustee Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Lipa City Batangas, Philippines Posts: 1,110	Hi Kevin. It's the LCD vs. CRT that makes the difference. The image on an LCD panel does not fade away the same as on a CRT, so you can capture the whole screen within one frame. When you shoot a CRT, you will get a black band when the shutter speed is too fast, or a bright band when it is too slow. Clearscan lets you try to synchronise the shutter to the CRT refresh so you get the whole picture without dark or bright bands. Regarding how to select clearscan, Im not sure, but I think it is greyed out in automatic exposure modes. Have you tried with the exposure set to Manual? Richard