24p questions

Lucinda Luvaas · June 17th, 2005, 10:42 AM

when you export the video, its nothin but 24 fps trying to be 30fps which is really bad.

This is what I'm concerned about. If I edit at 30p and then export will the footage look "really bad?" So, for the time being should I just edit at 30fps or 60i? please someone help! I need to know really soon. I don't want to start a film at 24 and then have to change or visa versa.

Lucinda

Wes Coughlin · June 17th, 2005, 12:18 PM

In AP 6.5 of what you have; it only allows you edit in the NSTC standard(their are no seperate 60i and 30p timelines, it just depends on how you should export the finish viedo), which is 29.97 fps. 60i is 29.97 fps and so is 30p; the only difference is that 30p is almost true 30fps because its progressive and 60i is like putting two frames together to make one, becuase its interlaced, so the overall frame rate is 29.97 fps. It is completley usless to edit a 24p movie and have the finish product be the wacked out 24p in the 29.97 fps setting. The 24p frame rates trying to be 30fps will not mess your video quality up, but the motion will be wack because when you insert a 24p video into a 29.97 timeline, every third or second frame will be repeated; because its 24 trying to be 30, so it has extra frames to make up the difference. If i were you, i would just film in 30p, and export in a "no fields" or progressive mode (interlace videos you usually have it set on "lower fields first" when exporting); becuase your videos are never going to be 24 fps unless you get premiere pro 1.5, FCP, Avid or vegas. and then after that you still need authorization tools (dvd burning software) that can handle the 24fps footage.

Tracy Graziano · June 23rd, 2005, 01:41 PM

Ok, question #2--
Are plasma screens progressive scan or interlace? I'm producing something that will end up on plasmas, and am thinking that shooting in 24p is the correct answer. Can anyone confirm that plasmas are progressive scan?
Thanks!

Graeme Nattress · June 23rd, 2005, 02:59 PM

They're progressive. 24p should work fine, and if you're making a 24p DVD should look great.

Graeme

Tracy Graziano · June 23rd, 2005, 03:22 PM

Thanks so much.
This forum is great!

Grant Carden · June 23rd, 2005, 10:37 PM

Why does 24p seem so "stobe like" or jumpy on the xl2?

Chris Hurd · June 23rd, 2005, 10:49 PM

Because it's 24p. Seriously, if you require silky-smooth video, that's what 60i is for. 24p can appear to strobe if you're not careful; you must be very careful with your camera movements (pan slowly). 24p is a particular kind of look... if you don't like it, don't use it... 30p is sort of a compromise, be sure to try it out. Choose the frame rate that best suits what you're doing.

Wes Coughlin · June 24th, 2005, 11:41 AM

Most people have their 24p shutter speed fixed on 1/48, because this is what actual film cameras use most of the time. If you have a higher shutter speed, that can also cause your video to look much more strobe like.

Jon Laing · June 24th, 2005, 01:15 PM

tru, i set my shutter to 1/24th because 1/48th is too stroby to me, 1/24th is much smoother, more film-like if you ask me.

Lucinda Luvaas · June 27th, 2005, 01:24 PM

Thanks Wes! I've been away and just got back to read your reply. What about the 60interlaced? couldn't I use that and export at 29.97? My other question is: I have a dvd recorder which I've been using for back up onto dvdr's as well as final output. If I use the 24p option, when I get FCP that is, will I be able to export the footage to the dvd recorder? Thanks Wes!

Wes Coughlin · June 27th, 2005, 10:27 PM

Yes about the 60i interlaced. But please dont get confused about the number 60, in the case of 60 interlaced frames, the frame rate is 29.97 fps. Its kinda hard to understand because it does actually take 60 frames persecond; but it combines 2 frames to make one, so it ends up bieng 30; this is where you here about people talking about horizontal video lines that you may see during fast motion, and that is caused by the interlaced frames; and then they will talk about ways to deinterlace the frames, which would be like 30p in a way. when you export interlaced videos, you usaully choose to export the lower field first, when compared the progressive, all you want to do is export no fields or progressive mode. I dont know much about fcp, but i would love to get a mac and get it; but people do tons of film work and 24p work on that so you should not have a problem. Im not sure about the DVD features, but ill bet it has one that will work fine when exporting your 24p project. you will most likley have to change some settings before you export it, so ask some more question to be well informed.

Bill Edmunds · July 6th, 2005, 10:07 AM

Is it better to shoot with 24p (or 30p) for a final product to be shown on a 720p television? Or will it still have that jittery motion quality?

Bruce Francis Cole · July 6th, 2005, 06:21 PM

Great work... It's very tricky judging exposure of the LCD monitors... especially if they are not calibrated correctly. Adorable kid! And again thanks for the footage online!

Dave Ferdinand · July 6th, 2005, 06:34 PM

It's all very nice until you get to the shot of the girl with the pumpkin. We can't see her face - surely it shouldn't be in the shadow? IMO it makes it look amateurish.

Apart from that it's cool.

Doug Thron · July 16th, 2005, 01:23 PM

I have been a professional still photographer for about 15 years and recently got an XL2 and am going to be getting into making a how to build a hotrod video and wondered what would be best to shoot in 24p, 30p, or 60i? I seem to like how the 60i looks in test shoots but are there any pluses or minuses to using it if I'm planning on editing it and putting it on dvd and vhs to market eventually. Or should I be shooting it on 24p or 30p? Any help would be very much appreciated. thanks, Doug.

June 23rd, 2005, 01:41 PM	#258
Tracy Graziano Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 41	to 24p or not to 24p (for plasma display) Ok, question #2-- Are plasma screens progressive scan or interlace? I'm producing something that will end up on plasmas, and am thinking that shooting in 24p is the correct answer. Can anyone confirm that plasmas are progressive scan? Thanks!

June 23rd, 2005, 02:59 PM	#259
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 1,365	They're progressive. 24p should work fine, and if you're making a 24p DVD should look great. Graeme __________________ www.nattress.com - filters for FCP

June 23rd, 2005, 10:37 PM	#261
Grant Carden New Boot Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 23	24p...why so "strobey" Why does 24p seem so "stobe like" or jumpy on the xl2?

June 23rd, 2005, 10:49 PM	#262
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Because it's 24p. Seriously, if you require silky-smooth video, that's what 60i is for. 24p can appear to strobe if you're not careful; you must be very careful with your camera movements (pan slowly). 24p is a particular kind of look... if you don't like it, don't use it... 30p is sort of a compromise, be sure to try it out. Choose the frame rate that best suits what you're doing. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 24th, 2005, 01:15 PM	#264
Jon Laing Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Wall, NJ Posts: 31	tru, i set my shutter to 1/24th because 1/48th is too stroby to me, 1/24th is much smoother, more film-like if you ask me. __________________ --Devereaux ]:-( ---> http://geocities.com/anarchist_lb

June 17th, 2005, 10:42 AM	#256
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	when you export the video, its nothin but 24 fps trying to be 30fps which is really bad. This is what I'm concerned about. If I edit at 30p and then export will the footage look "really bad?" So, for the time being should I just edit at 30fps or 60i? please someone help! I need to know really soon. I don't want to start a film at 24 and then have to change or visa versa. Lucinda

June 17th, 2005, 12:18 PM	#257
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	In AP 6.5 of what you have; it only allows you edit in the NSTC standard(their are no seperate 60i and 30p timelines, it just depends on how you should export the finish viedo), which is 29.97 fps. 60i is 29.97 fps and so is 30p; the only difference is that 30p is almost true 30fps because its progressive and 60i is like putting two frames together to make one, becuase its interlaced, so the overall frame rate is 29.97 fps. It is completley usless to edit a 24p movie and have the finish product be the wacked out 24p in the 29.97 fps setting. The 24p frame rates trying to be 30fps will not mess your video quality up, but the motion will be wack because when you insert a 24p video into a 29.97 timeline, every third or second frame will be repeated; because its 24 trying to be 30, so it has extra frames to make up the difference. If i were you, i would just film in 30p, and export in a "no fields" or progressive mode (interlace videos you usually have it set on "lower fields first" when exporting); becuase your videos are never going to be 24 fps unless you get premiere pro 1.5, FCP, Avid or vegas. and then after that you still need authorization tools (dvd burning software) that can handle the 24fps footage.

June 23rd, 2005, 03:22 PM	#260
Tracy Graziano Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 41	Thanks so much. This forum is great!

June 24th, 2005, 11:41 AM	#263
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	Most people have their 24p shutter speed fixed on 1/48, because this is what actual film cameras use most of the time. If you have a higher shutter speed, that can also cause your video to look much more strobe like.

June 27th, 2005, 01:24 PM	#265
Lucinda Luvaas Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 233	Thanks Wes! I've been away and just got back to read your reply. What about the 60interlaced? couldn't I use that and export at 29.97? My other question is: I have a dvd recorder which I've been using for back up onto dvdr's as well as final output. If I use the 24p option, when I get FCP that is, will I be able to export the footage to the dvd recorder? Thanks Wes!

June 27th, 2005, 10:27 PM	#266
Wes Coughlin Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bend, Oregon Posts: 206	Yes about the 60i interlaced. But please dont get confused about the number 60, in the case of 60 interlaced frames, the frame rate is 29.97 fps. Its kinda hard to understand because it does actually take 60 frames persecond; but it combines 2 frames to make one, so it ends up bieng 30; this is where you here about people talking about horizontal video lines that you may see during fast motion, and that is caused by the interlaced frames; and then they will talk about ways to deinterlace the frames, which would be like 30p in a way. when you export interlaced videos, you usaully choose to export the lower field first, when compared the progressive, all you want to do is export no fields or progressive mode. I dont know much about fcp, but i would love to get a mac and get it; but people do tons of film work and 24p work on that so you should not have a problem. Im not sure about the DVD features, but ill bet it has one that will work fine when exporting your 24p project. you will most likley have to change some settings before you export it, so ask some more question to be well informed. __________________ http://wildlookout.com

July 6th, 2005, 10:07 AM	#267
Bill Edmunds Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Conway, NH Posts: 574	24p or 60i for display on HD-TV? Is it better to shoot with 24p (or 30p) for a final product to be shown on a 720p television? Or will it still have that jittery motion quality?

July 6th, 2005, 06:21 PM	#268
Bruce Francis Cole Tourist Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 1	Those damn LCDs... Great work... It's very tricky judging exposure of the LCD monitors... especially if they are not calibrated correctly. Adorable kid! And again thanks for the footage online!

July 6th, 2005, 06:34 PM	#269
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	It's all very nice until you get to the shot of the girl with the pumpkin. We can't see her face - surely it shouldn't be in the shadow? IMO it makes it look amateurish. Apart from that it's cool. __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

July 16th, 2005, 01:23 PM	#270
Doug Thron New Boot Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 8	hotrod video...24p, 30p, or 60i I have been a professional still photographer for about 15 years and recently got an XL2 and am going to be getting into making a how to build a hotrod video and wondered what would be best to shoot in 24p, 30p, or 60i? I seem to like how the 60i looks in test shoots but are there any pluses or minuses to using it if I'm planning on editing it and putting it on dvd and vhs to market eventually. Or should I be shooting it on 24p or 30p? Any help would be very much appreciated. thanks, Doug.