Skin Detail Adjustment at DVinfo.net

Nick Hiltgen · October 26th, 2004, 02:43 AM

hey just checked out an XL2 (kept looking for the saturation setting to no avail) and noticed when adjusting skin detail there seemed to be this wierd sort of zebra on the screen is that normal? If it is how do you adjust skin detail without going insane.

To note I had this issue both through the viewfinder and on a 42"hd monitor.

Jay Gladwell · October 26th, 2004, 04:56 AM

Nick--

If I understand this feature correctly, I've only played with it a bit, the zebra-like pattern is showing you what specific areas are being "adjusted". For example, you may see the pattern on other objects within the viewfinder. This means that that object has a color/tone similar to the person's skin tone.

So in reality, this is not an "issue" it's a function of the equipment.

Jay

Nick Hiltgen · October 26th, 2004, 07:42 AM

Hmm Ok, It seemed a little more destracting then helpful but maybe that was just me, thanks Jay!

Ken Plotin · October 26th, 2004, 09:26 AM

The skin tone detail adjustment on the XL2 is the most comprehensive I've ever seen on this type of camera.
You can adjust not only the chroma to be affected, but the area as well. You can dial in most of the face, for example, without affecting eyes, eyebrows, etc.
Pretty incredible control.
I was at the B&S Hollywood demo and this feature was really impressive.
Ken

Charles Papert · October 26th, 2004, 10:26 AM

Ken, with the broadcast camera versions of this that I have seen you would have to increase the overall detail in a scene to be able to reduce skin detail, which makes a relative difference but is a bit ass-backward to me, so I never used it. Does the XL2 require this, or can it soften below a "normal" detail setting?

Barry Goyette · October 26th, 2004, 02:18 PM

I did a test a few weeks ago, and I'll say that the skin detail effect was fairly subtle....with the whole face selected I only able to see the finest skin texture being softened...pores, not wrinkles. This is probably not a feature I would have much interest in, but I was impressed as ken was with the ability of the camera to select the skin areas quite well...but it didn't do much even at the highest setting. Perhaps Charles comment is worth pursuing...as my vertical detail setting was set to low to start with, with sharpness at neutral.

Barry

Nick Hiltgen · October 26th, 2004, 07:45 PM

I'll admit that the changes that I noticed were also minimal, While I don't doubt that it's a comprehensive thing I didn't notice much difference. But it must just be me as I was using an XL2 from B+S. I think that mr. P may have a very valid statement. I also still found the flashing white blowout lines really distracting.

Ken Plotin · October 26th, 2004, 10:26 PM

Charles,
From what I could see at the demo. the detail setting wasn't changed, so I assume it was set to "normal" or no increase.
The difference was, indeed, subtle but certainly useful.
Once the adjustment is set, you can turn off the "zebra guide".
I'm really impressed at the depth of the menu choices on the XL2; far more extensive than my DVX100A. This will allow pros to control more parameters of the image AND at the same time, let a large number of people make truly awful menu choices and bad video (you can actually adjust the individual RGB levels in a scene via a menu!) Can you imagine the money that's going to be spent in post trying to "correct" those corrections?
However, bottom line is: the 16x9 picture is really, really nice.
I'm probably not the only one that would like to see Canon make a set of prime lenses for this camera.
Ken

David Lach · October 26th, 2004, 10:51 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Plotin : I'm probably not the only one that would like to see Canon make a set of prime lenses for this camera.
Ken -->>>

Oh have I wished for that day that shall probably never come when Canon would release a full set of XL manual prime lenses. But the XL DV camcorder series is probably nearing its end, so I doubt Canon will invest in any kind of significant lenses and accessories upgrade, unless of course they plan to make their next HDV camera an XL mounted one.

October 26th, 2004, 02:43 AM	#1
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Skin Detail Adjustment hey just checked out an XL2 (kept looking for the saturation setting to no avail) and noticed when adjusting skin detail there seemed to be this wierd sort of zebra on the screen is that normal? If it is how do you adjust skin detail without going insane. To note I had this issue both through the viewfinder and on a 42"hd monitor.

October 26th, 2004, 10:26 AM	#5
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Ken, with the broadcast camera versions of this that I have seen you would have to increase the overall detail in a scene to be able to reduce skin detail, which makes a relative difference but is a bit ass-backward to me, so I never used it. Does the XL2 require this, or can it soften below a "normal" detail setting? __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

October 26th, 2004, 04:56 AM	#2
Jay Gladwell Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,244	Nick-- If I understand this feature correctly, I've only played with it a bit, the zebra-like pattern is showing you what specific areas are being "adjusted". For example, you may see the pattern on other objects within the viewfinder. This means that that object has a color/tone similar to the person's skin tone. So in reality, this is not an "issue" it's a function of the equipment. Jay

October 26th, 2004, 07:42 AM	#3
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	Hmm Ok, It seemed a little more destracting then helpful but maybe that was just me, thanks Jay!

October 26th, 2004, 09:26 AM	#4
Ken Plotin Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	The skin tone detail adjustment on the XL2 is the most comprehensive I've ever seen on this type of camera. You can adjust not only the chroma to be affected, but the area as well. You can dial in most of the face, for example, without affecting eyes, eyebrows, etc. Pretty incredible control. I was at the B&S Hollywood demo and this feature was really impressive. Ken

October 26th, 2004, 02:18 PM	#6
Barry Goyette Trustee Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: San Luis Obispo CA Posts: 1,195	I did a test a few weeks ago, and I'll say that the skin detail effect was fairly subtle....with the whole face selected I only able to see the finest skin texture being softened...pores, not wrinkles. This is probably not a feature I would have much interest in, but I was impressed as ken was with the ability of the camera to select the skin areas quite well...but it didn't do much even at the highest setting. Perhaps Charles comment is worth pursuing...as my vertical detail setting was set to low to start with, with sharpness at neutral. Barry

October 26th, 2004, 07:45 PM	#7
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	I'll admit that the changes that I noticed were also minimal, While I don't doubt that it's a comprehensive thing I didn't notice much difference. But it must just be me as I was using an XL2 from B+S. I think that mr. P may have a very valid statement. I also still found the flashing white blowout lines really distracting.

October 26th, 2004, 10:26 PM	#8
Ken Plotin Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 254	Charles, From what I could see at the demo. the detail setting wasn't changed, so I assume it was set to "normal" or no increase. The difference was, indeed, subtle but certainly useful. Once the adjustment is set, you can turn off the "zebra guide". I'm really impressed at the depth of the menu choices on the XL2; far more extensive than my DVX100A. This will allow pros to control more parameters of the image AND at the same time, let a large number of people make truly awful menu choices and bad video (you can actually adjust the individual RGB levels in a scene via a menu!) Can you imagine the money that's going to be spent in post trying to "correct" those corrections? However, bottom line is: the 16x9 picture is really, really nice. I'm probably not the only one that would like to see Canon make a set of prime lenses for this camera. Ken

October 26th, 2004, 10:51 PM	#9
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Plotin : I'm probably not the only one that would like to see Canon make a set of prime lenses for this camera. Ken -->>> Oh have I wished for that day that shall probably never come when Canon would release a full set of XL manual prime lenses. But the XL DV camcorder series is probably nearing its end, so I doubt Canon will invest in any kind of significant lenses and accessories upgrade, unless of course they plan to make their next HDV camera an XL mounted one.