Handling of the XL series at DVinfo.net

Frederic Segard · October 18th, 2004, 10:57 AM

Just curious to find out from XL users how they find the handling (physical manipulation) of the cam compared to both loaf-of-bread prosumer models (PD170, DVX, GL2, etc), and shoulder mount pro camcorders

I’ve only tried the XL2 for about half an hour, so I have no real opinion about it, save for it’s awkwardness in shoulder mount position. I suppose that most of you have a counter weight bracket to offset the weight on the arm?

What about low angles? How do you find holding the XL without an LCD to frame the shot? Is the viewfinder good enough, or do you use a separate LCD monitor attached on the shoe? And what about hand held shots above the head?

All in all, the weight is not all that different form most load of bread camcorders, but it’s shape and size must somehow be cumbersome; or is it just a question of getting use to it?

Michael Hamilton · October 19th, 2004, 08:13 AM

Frederic,

I find that the XL1 is just right for me.
The smaller cams are to hard to keep steady even with servo on,
they don't have enough body to hold wireless mics, lights, etc. third party manufactures are even creating things that make the camera bigger so that they can accomodate the accesories!
Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small handheld cam.
And the larger pro size is just to cumbersome and heavy.

Michael

Russell Newquist · October 19th, 2004, 08:59 AM

The weight of my XL1 doesn't bother me in the slightest, although the lens alone is substantially heavier than most consumer camcorders. The problem is, the lens alone is heavier than most consumer camcorders, and that throws the balance way off. The camera is very nose heavy, and I haven't gotten used to that yet (I just got my used XL1 last week). I'm having a very difficult time keeping it steady in handheld mode, even with the MA-100 shoulder mount.

There are solutions to this, including expensive shoulder mounts, steadicam rigs, and just plain ol' practice, but I haven't licked it personally yet. I would, however, say that the balance issue is just about the only issue I have with the camera.

Greg Boston · October 19th, 2004, 10:09 AM

Russell,

You should look into getting the Lightwave Systems System Isolator for your XL-1. This moves the VF further forward which places the camera further back on your shoulder. It will still be a bit nose heavy but will improve the balance and help reduce operator fatique.

regards,

=gb=

David Lach · October 20th, 2004, 12:13 AM

Hey Greg, I really don't mean to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if you still had that WA adapter for the 14x lens for sale (saw you mention it in a 2 month old thread). If you do, drop me an Email, I might be interested.

...

As for the topic of this thread, I definitelly feel someone who will be shooting handheld for extended periods of time will want a counter-weight system of some kind. Very front heavy, especially if you're using the 20x lens or the manual one. I won't be looking into that right away since what I do is 90% tripod / steadicam mounted, but if I start doing more run and gun stuff, I will certainly look into it. There must be an inexpensive guerilla way to get the weight redistributed without paying an insane amount.

I saw that Davis & Sanford "Steady-Stick" a while ago on eBay and thought it was a neat idea, but don't know if it works well or not. That might be a really good solution to redistribute the weight to your waist, keep the cam steady and do some limited crane-like moves in an handheld manner. Anyone has some experience with that product?

Frederic Segard · October 20th, 2004, 06:37 AM

David, as a Montrealer, where do you shop for your gear?

Jean-Philippe Archibald · October 20th, 2004, 06:59 AM

When I have to use my XL1 shoulder mounted in a scripted situation (you know, it's the flavor of the month!) I have found that the most comfortable way to do this for me is to rest the MA-100 on my shoulder and holding the camera with the top handle. look: http://sunens.uqac.ca/~jparchib/Albu.../photo_73.html
http://sunens.uqac.ca/~jparchib/Albu.../photo_75.html

If I am on an event, I just use a monopod with a tilt head to give some rest to my arm.

Work great for me.

Richard Alvarez · October 20th, 2004, 07:26 AM

"Loaf of bread" style cams... Hah! Like that designation, I always call them "Coffee-cams" cause their bodies are about the shape and size of a one pound coffee can.

When I shoot with the xl1s, I usually have the dual batt pack on the back... this is a very nice balance for the shoulder position. I know it's expensive as a balance solution, but really once you start shooting with those back there, you never think about running low on power in a run and gun situation.

David Lach · October 20th, 2004, 07:58 AM

Frederic, the only physical store I go to regularly in Montreal is L. L. Lozeau. I go there mostly for items I want the warranty there so I don't have to ship it if there's a problem. I also go there for expendables (gels mostly). That's where I bought my XL2 and I must say I got a great price for it. Even with the 3 year extended warranty, it still came out under the usual $5000 US selling price in most US stores. They also have a great customer service.

My other 2 big suppliers are B&H located in New York and even if that might sound strange, eBay. There's great stuff to be found on eBay, but you definitelly have to know how to shop there, what to look for and especially, what to avoid. I've completed thousands of dollars worth in transactions on eBay and you can really get killer deals if you're patient enough (just got a used waveform monitor for the price of a bag of ships and a bunch of very high quality XLR cables for next to nothing).

If you choose the B&H route, the only thing to remember is buy in bulk or don't buy. Because for Canadian addresses, it will cost about as much to ship a single sheet of CTO than it would to ship dozens of items. They charge a $20 US minimum fee on shipping for items going to Canada, but the more you add items after that, the more you save.

October 18th, 2004, 10:57 AM	#1
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	Handling of the XL series Just curious to find out from XL users how they find the handling (physical manipulation) of the cam compared to both loaf-of-bread prosumer models (PD170, DVX, GL2, etc), and shoulder mount pro camcorders I’ve only tried the XL2 for about half an hour, so I have no real opinion about it, save for it’s awkwardness in shoulder mount position. I suppose that most of you have a counter weight bracket to offset the weight on the arm? What about low angles? How do you find holding the XL without an LCD to frame the shot? Is the viewfinder good enough, or do you use a separate LCD monitor attached on the shoe? And what about hand held shots above the head? All in all, the weight is not all that different form most load of bread camcorders, but it’s shape and size must somehow be cumbersome; or is it just a question of getting use to it?

October 19th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#3
Russell Newquist Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Huntsville, Alabama Posts: 44	The weight of my XL1 doesn't bother me in the slightest, although the lens alone is substantially heavier than most consumer camcorders. The problem is, the lens alone is heavier than most consumer camcorders, and that throws the balance way off. The camera is very nose heavy, and I haven't gotten used to that yet (I just got my used XL1 last week). I'm having a very difficult time keeping it steady in handheld mode, even with the MA-100 shoulder mount. There are solutions to this, including expensive shoulder mounts, steadicam rigs, and just plain ol' practice, but I haven't licked it personally yet. I would, however, say that the balance issue is just about the only issue I have with the camera. __________________ Russell Newquist http://www.russellnewquist.net/

October 20th, 2004, 06:59 AM	#7
Jean-Philippe Archibald Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Saguenay, Québec, Canada Posts: 1,051	When I have to use my XL1 shoulder mounted in a scripted situation (you know, it's the flavor of the month!) I have found that the most comfortable way to do this for me is to rest the MA-100 on my shoulder and holding the camera with the top handle. look: http://sunens.uqac.ca/~jparchib/Albu.../photo_73.html http://sunens.uqac.ca/~jparchib/Albu.../photo_75.html If I am on an event, I just use a monopod with a tilt head to give some rest to my arm. Work great for me. __________________ Jean-Philippe Archibald http://www.jparchibald.com - http://www.vimeo.com/jparchib

October 19th, 2004, 08:13 AM	#2
Michael Hamilton Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Falls Church Virginia Posts: 61	Frederic, I find that the XL1 is just right for me. The smaller cams are to hard to keep steady even with servo on, they don't have enough body to hold wireless mics, lights, etc. third party manufactures are even creating things that make the camera bigger so that they can accomodate the accesories! Kind of defeats the purpose of having a small handheld cam. And the larger pro size is just to cumbersome and heavy. Michael

October 19th, 2004, 10:09 AM	#4
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Russell, You should look into getting the Lightwave Systems System Isolator for your XL-1. This moves the VF further forward which places the camera further back on your shoulder. It will still be a bit nose heavy but will improve the balance and help reduce operator fatique. regards, =gb=

October 20th, 2004, 12:13 AM	#5
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Hey Greg, I really don't mean to hijack this thread, but I was wondering if you still had that WA adapter for the 14x lens for sale (saw you mention it in a 2 month old thread). If you do, drop me an Email, I might be interested. ... As for the topic of this thread, I definitelly feel someone who will be shooting handheld for extended periods of time will want a counter-weight system of some kind. Very front heavy, especially if you're using the 20x lens or the manual one. I won't be looking into that right away since what I do is 90% tripod / steadicam mounted, but if I start doing more run and gun stuff, I will certainly look into it. There must be an inexpensive guerilla way to get the weight redistributed without paying an insane amount. I saw that Davis & Sanford "Steady-Stick" a while ago on eBay and thought it was a neat idea, but don't know if it works well or not. That might be a really good solution to redistribute the weight to your waist, keep the cam steady and do some limited crane-like moves in an handheld manner. Anyone has some experience with that product?

October 20th, 2004, 06:37 AM	#6
Frederic Segard Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Montreal, Canada Posts: 209	David, as a Montrealer, where do you shop for your gear?

October 20th, 2004, 07:26 AM	#8
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	"Loaf of bread" style cams... Hah! Like that designation, I always call them "Coffee-cams" cause their bodies are about the shape and size of a one pound coffee can. When I shoot with the xl1s, I usually have the dual batt pack on the back... this is a very nice balance for the shoulder position. I know it's expensive as a balance solution, but really once you start shooting with those back there, you never think about running low on power in a run and gun situation.

October 20th, 2004, 07:58 AM	#9
David Lach Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Montreal, QC, Canada Posts: 570	Frederic, the only physical store I go to regularly in Montreal is L. L. Lozeau. I go there mostly for items I want the warranty there so I don't have to ship it if there's a problem. I also go there for expendables (gels mostly). That's where I bought my XL2 and I must say I got a great price for it. Even with the 3 year extended warranty, it still came out under the usual $5000 US selling price in most US stores. They also have a great customer service. My other 2 big suppliers are B&H located in New York and even if that might sound strange, eBay. There's great stuff to be found on eBay, but you definitelly have to know how to shop there, what to look for and especially, what to avoid. I've completed thousands of dollars worth in transactions on eBay and you can really get killer deals if you're patient enough (just got a used waveform monitor for the price of a bag of ships and a bunch of very high quality XLR cables for next to nothing). If you choose the B&H route, the only thing to remember is buy in bulk or don't buy. Because for Canadian addresses, it will cost about as much to ship a single sheet of CTO than it would to ship dozens of items. They charge a $20 US minimum fee on shipping for items going to Canada, but the more you add items after that, the more you save.